Difference between revisions of "Means of Transport"

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==Travel  on land==
 
==Travel  on land==
 
===By palanquin or dandy===
 
===By palanquin or dandy===
*Photographs  showing a Palkee, Palki, Palanquin, with Bearers:  [http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ggbain.00366/ Palanquin, India] Library of Congress. [http://siris-archives.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=12825SX1354O1.90703&profile=all&source=~!siarchives&view=subscriptionsummary&uri=full=3100001~!58937~!41&ri=1&aspect=subtab157&menu=search&ipp=20&spp=20&staffonly=&term=Calcutta&index=.GW&uindex=&aspect=subtab157&menu=search&ri=1#focus Palkee, Calcutta]. Smithsonian Institution. Click image to enlarge. Undated, before 1903. [http://www.oldindianphotos.in/2011/03/four-men-carrying-palkee-palanquin.html Four men carrying a Palkee (Palanquin) c 1870s] Old Indian Photos.
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*Photographs  showing a Palkee, Palki, Palanquin, with Bearers: [http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00glossarydata/terms/palanquin/palanquin.html Palanquin images] from Prof. Emerita Fran Pritchett’s ''Indian Routes''. [http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/ggbain.00366/ Palanquin, India] Library of Congress. Similar image [https://learninglab.si.edu/resources/view/90161 Four Bengal men carrying man in palki or palanquin, undated]. Click through to 2/2 images. Photograph is captioned Palkee and …?(=Bearers), Calcutta. Undated, before 1903. Smithsonian Learning Lab. [http://www.oldindianphotos.in/2011/03/four-men-carrying-palkee-palanquin.html Four men carrying a Palkee (Palanquin) c 1870s] Old Indian Photos.
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**[https://archive.org/details/east-india-guide-1825/page/173/mode/2up A description of various types of palanquins] from the bottom of page 173  ''The General East India Guide and Vade Mecum ... in British India and the Adjacent Parts of Asia (etc.)'' by J B Gilchrist 1825 Archive.org. [https://archive.org/details/east-india-guide-1825/page/177/mode/2up Page 178] describes a bangy used for carrying goods. "If not overladen, the bangy will generally keep pace with the palanquin".
 
**Post-Masters were  tasked with assisting travellers going from one place to another by 'laying the dawk' for them upon request and on due payment.<ref>
 
**Post-Masters were  tasked with assisting travellers going from one place to another by 'laying the dawk' for them upon request and on due payment.<ref>
Kolhatkar, Arvind [http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ/2015-05/1431529726 Laying the Dawk - Part 2] ''Rootsweb India-British-Raj Mailing List'' 13 May 2015. Retrieved 15 May 2015</ref> This referred to appointing relays of bearers to be ready on certain nights, at certain stations by which the traveller passed passed. "Five men carry the palkee, four more attend as reserves to take their turn, two carry tin petarrahs, or boxes slung on a pole, and two carry torches".<ref> [https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9LIRAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22laying%20the%20dawk%22&pg=PA16 "A Tiger Tale"] page 16  ''Warne’s Home Annual 1868'' Google Books.</ref> [https://archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n351/mode/2up Dawk/dak],meaning Post,  page 299 ''Hobson Jobson''.  The word survives in dak bungalow, a traveller's rest house. Routes, estimates of times, costs etc are included in [https://books.google.ca/books?id=GZMRAQAAIAAJ&pg=PR6 ''‪Itinerary and Directory for Western India: being a collection of routes through the provinces subject to the Presidency of Bombay, and the principal roads in the neighbouring states''] by Captain John Clunes 12th Regiment Bombay Native Infantry 1826‬.  Google Books
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Kolhatkar, Arvind [https://web.archive.org/web/20181214151340/https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/india-british-raj@rootsweb.com/thread/206388/ Laying the Dawk - Part 2] ''Rootsweb India-British-Raj Mailing List'' 13 May 2015, archived.</ref> This referred to appointing relays of bearers to be ready on certain nights, at certain stations by which the traveller passed passed. "Five men carry the palkee, four more attend as reserves to take their turn, two carry tin petarrahs, or boxes slung on a pole, and two carry torches".<ref> [https://books.google.com.au/books?id=9LIRAAAAYAAJ&dq=%22laying%20the%20dawk%22&pg=PA16 "A Tiger Tale"] page 16  ''Warne’s Home Annual 1868'' Google Books.</ref> [https://archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n351/mode/2up Dawk/dak], meaning Post,  page 299 ''Hobson Jobson''.  The word survives in dak bungalow, a traveller's rest house. Routes, estimates of times, costs etc are included in [https://books.google.ca/books?id=GZMRAQAAIAAJ&pg=PR6 ''‪Itinerary and Directory for Western India: being a collection of routes through the provinces subject to the Presidency of Bombay, and the principal roads in the neighbouring states''] by Captain John Clunes 12th Regiment Bombay Native Infantry 1826‬.  Google Books
**[https://archive.org/stream/glimpsesofoldbom00dougrich#page/148/mode/2up “Across India in a Palkee” [in 1845]<nowiki>]</nowiki> page 149 ''Glimpses of Old Bombay and Western India, with other papers'' by James Douglas  1900 Archive.org.  Article with images: [http://oldphotosbombay.blogspot.com/2011/02/bombay-to-calcutta-18251400-miles-in-25.html "Bombay to Calcutta ...1,400 Miles In 25 Days, in a Palanquin...] Old Photos,Bombay
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**[http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_0000000530C4#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=54&z=-478.5368%2C0%2C2420.0735%2C2385 "Account of a Late Palankeen Trip from Bombay to Mhow and Lahore" [December, 1837<nowiki>]</nowiki>]. Part II, page 39 ''Narrative of a Late Steam Voyage from England to India via the Mediteranean. (Part II. Account of a Late Palankeen Trip from Bombay to Mhow and Lahore'') by Captain T Seymour Burt. 1840. British Library Digital Collection.
*[http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15799coll123/id/78892/rec/156 Photograph: Missionary being taken up hill on a litter [dandy<nowiki>]</nowiki>, Darjeeling, ca.1890] Photographs from Scottish Missions, the National Library of Scotland. USC Digital Library. [http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n349/mode/2up Dandy, dandi] page 296 ''Hobson Jobson'' 1903 (first published 1886) Archive.org   
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**[http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_00000005BF3E#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=18&xywh=-267%2C-1%2C1805%2C2174 "Chapter II The dawk journey from Calcutta and Madras to Bombay"] page 7 ''The Overland Traveller, or Guide to persons proceeding to Europe via the Red Sea, from India'' by John Blackburn 1838. British Library Digital Collection.
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**[https://archive.org/stream/glimpsesofoldbom00dougrich#page/148/mode/2up “Across India in a Palkee” [in 1845]<nowiki>]</nowiki> page 149 ''Glimpses of Old Bombay and Western India, with other papers'' by James Douglas  1900 Archive.org.  Article with images: [https://web.archive.org/web/20150422033033/http://oldphotosbombay.blogspot.com/2011/02/bombay-to-calcutta-18251400-miles-in-25.html "Bombay to Calcutta ...1,400 Miles In 25 Days, in a Palanquin...] Old Photos, Bombay, now archived.
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*[https://digitallibrary.usc.edu/asset-management/2A3BF1EY02_6 Photograph: Missionary being taken up hill on a litter [dandy<nowiki>]</nowiki>, Darjeeling, ca.1890] Photographs from Scottish Missions, the National Library of Scotland. USC Digital Library. [http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n349/mode/2up Dandy, dandi] page 296 ''Hobson Jobson'' 1903 (first published 1886) Archive.org
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*[https://www.paperjewels.org/postcard/rickshaw-mussoorie-dandy-mussoorie Postcard: Rickshaw Mussoorie. Dandy Mussoorie] paperjewels.org. "A very unusual early split-screen postcard", by Julian Rust, undated.
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*[https://archive.org/details/dli.calcutta.04022/page/137/mode/2up "Old-Time Conveyances in Calcutta"] by Frank E Bushby pages 138-141 ''Bengal Past and Present, Vol-41 January-June 1931''. Archive.org
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===By horse or bullock drawn vehicle===
 
===By horse or bullock drawn vehicle===
 
*[http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/other/019wdz000000312u00024v00.html 1814 Sketches of the line of march with bullock carts, elephants, horsemen, etc.] by Captain Robert Smith, probably Bengal Engineers c 1814. British Library online Gallery. Click on “zoomable image” to enlarge.
 
*[http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/other/019wdz000000312u00024v00.html 1814 Sketches of the line of march with bullock carts, elephants, horsemen, etc.] by Captain Robert Smith, probably Bengal Engineers c 1814. British Library online Gallery. Click on “zoomable image” to enlarge.
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*[https://archive.org/details/east-india-guide-1825/page/179/mode/2up A description of bullock carts] pages 179-183  ''The General East India Guide and Vade Mecum ... in British India and the Adjacent Parts of Asia (etc.)'' by J B Gilchrist 1825 Archive.org
 
*[https://archive.org/stream/howworldtravels00meth#page/32/mode/2up "Journeys Through India"] page 32  ''How the World Travels'' by A. A. Methley  1922 Archive.org
 
*[https://archive.org/stream/howworldtravels00meth#page/32/mode/2up "Journeys Through India"] page 32  ''How the World Travels'' by A. A. Methley  1922 Archive.org
 
*[http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n389/mode/2up Ecka/ekka] page 336 ''Hobson Jobson''. A small one horse  carriage. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekka_(carriage) Ekka (carriage)] Wikipedia. [http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n459/mode/2up  Hackery]  page 407 ''Hobson Jobson''. Bullock cart used for goods and materials, or in some parts of India equivalent to an ekka.[http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n983/mode/2up Tonga/tongha]  page 930 ''Hobson Jobson''. A carriage drawn by a pair of ponies or oxen.
 
*[http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n389/mode/2up Ecka/ekka] page 336 ''Hobson Jobson''. A small one horse  carriage. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekka_(carriage) Ekka (carriage)] Wikipedia. [http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n459/mode/2up  Hackery]  page 407 ''Hobson Jobson''. Bullock cart used for goods and materials, or in some parts of India equivalent to an ekka.[http://www.archive.org/stream/hobsonjobson029985mbp#page/n983/mode/2up Tonga/tongha]  page 930 ''Hobson Jobson''. A carriage drawn by a pair of ponies or oxen.
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**[https://www.flickr.com/photos/13305961@N00/3920409573/in/photostream/ Photograph: No 28 ‘Ekka' with passenger and baggage, coming from Cashmere (Kashmir) to Murree]  probably taken 1901-1903 flickr.com This was No 28 of a series of stereoscopic views  and  a description of this photograph appears on [https://archive.org/stream/indiathroughste00ricagoog#page/n107/mode/2up page 100] ''India through the stereoscope : a journey through Hindustan'' by James Ricalton 1907 Archive.org
 
**[https://www.flickr.com/photos/13305961@N00/3920409573/in/photostream/ Photograph: No 28 ‘Ekka' with passenger and baggage, coming from Cashmere (Kashmir) to Murree]  probably taken 1901-1903 flickr.com This was No 28 of a series of stereoscopic views  and  a description of this photograph appears on [https://archive.org/stream/indiathroughste00ricagoog#page/n107/mode/2up page 100] ''India through the stereoscope : a journey through Hindustan'' by James Ricalton 1907 Archive.org
 
**[https://books.google.com.au/books?id=3MefAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA56 Photograph: An ekka, an ox-drawn cart c 1914 at Belgaum] page 56 ''Chota Sahib... You've Had a Busy Day'' by Charles Nida Google Books
 
**[https://books.google.com.au/books?id=3MefAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA56 Photograph: An ekka, an ox-drawn cart c 1914 at Belgaum] page 56 ''Chota Sahib... You've Had a Busy Day'' by Charles Nida Google Books
**[http://www.oldindianphotos.in/2010/10/indian-men-in-ox-cart-date-unknown.html Photograph: Indian Men in Ox Cart [drawn by a pair of oxen<nowiki>]</nowiki>] oldindianphotos.in. [http://siris-archives.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?uri=full=3100001~!58605!0 A bullock Ekka (Indian carriage & pa[ir?<nowiki>]</nowiki>] 1862  National Anthropological Archives, Smithsonian Museum.
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**[http://www.oldindianphotos.in/2010/10/indian-men-in-ox-cart-date-unknown.html Photograph: Indian Men in Ox Cart [drawn by a pair of oxen<nowiki>]</nowiki>] oldindianphotos.in. [https://learninglab.si.edu/resources/view/90069 Three men with ekka (carriage) pulled by team of bullocks 1862] Photograph is titled A bullock Ekka (Indian carriage & pa[ir?]) North W Province. Smithsonian Learning Lab,  source National Anthropological Archives.
 
**[http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00glossarydata/terms/ekka/ekka.html Images of ekkas and other carts] from [http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00glossary/index.html#index Early Modern India: a Select Glossary] Professor Frances Pritchett.
 
**[http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00glossarydata/terms/ekka/ekka.html Images of ekkas and other carts] from [http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00glossary/index.html#index Early Modern India: a Select Glossary] Professor Frances Pritchett.
 
*[http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704723104576061931702951172 Photograph: Hospital Shwebo, [Burma<nowiki>]</nowiki> with Different Descriptions of Ambulances, 1887 – 1897]  Wall Street Journal. This photograph was included in an exhibition at the J Paul Getty Museum <ref> [http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/beato/beato_checklist.pdf  Felice Beato: A Photographer on the Eastern Road ], photograph 114, exhibition at the J Paul Getty Museum</ref>
 
*[http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704723104576061931702951172 Photograph: Hospital Shwebo, [Burma<nowiki>]</nowiki> with Different Descriptions of Ambulances, 1887 – 1897]  Wall Street Journal. This photograph was included in an exhibition at the J Paul Getty Museum <ref> [http://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/beato/beato_checklist.pdf  Felice Beato: A Photographer on the Eastern Road ], photograph 114, exhibition at the J Paul Getty Museum</ref>
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===By motor transport===
 
===By motor transport===
 
*[http://www.jstor.org/stable/41355210 "Roads And Motor Transport In India"] by Brigadier-General Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, Adviser on Mechanical Transport Services in India, 1915-19. ''Journal of the Royal Society of Arts'' Vol. 68, No. 3529 (July 9, 1920), pp. 541-552 jstor.org. Available to read for free on JSTOR, but first you must register, see [[Miscellaneous tips#Access some articles in the JSTOR subscription website for free|Miscellaneous tips]]
 
*[http://www.jstor.org/stable/41355210 "Roads And Motor Transport In India"] by Brigadier-General Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, Adviser on Mechanical Transport Services in India, 1915-19. ''Journal of the Royal Society of Arts'' Vol. 68, No. 3529 (July 9, 1920), pp. 541-552 jstor.org. Available to read for free on JSTOR, but first you must register, see [[Miscellaneous tips#Access some articles in the JSTOR subscription website for free|Miscellaneous tips]]
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===Dak bungalows===
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*[https://web.archive.org/web/20210610015342/https://www.livehistoryindia.com/story/snapshort-histories/dak-banglas-their-dark-tales/ "Dak Banglas & Their Dark Tales"] by Aditi Shah December 12th 2018. ''Live History India'', now an archived webpage. "The word ‘dak’ is Urdu for 'post' and dak banglas were initially built by the British Indian Public Works Department to help postal officers relay the mail in stages."
  
 
==Inflated animal skins==
 
==Inflated animal skins==
*The Khatnaoo, an inflatable bullock skin used for water travel (may also be called a Dareyi)<ref>Shiraz, Richard [https://in.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/apnahimachal/conversations/messages/1159 kundan from harsi]  Apna Himachal Yahoo group July 14, 2005. Retrieved 24 May 2015</ref>
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*The Khatnaoo, an inflatable bullock skin used for water travel (may also be called a Dareyi)<ref>Shiraz, Richard [https://web.archive.org/web/20150524041936/https://in.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/apnahimachal/conversations/messages/1159 kundan from harsi]  Apna Himachal Yahoo group July 14, 2005, now archived.</ref>. Also known as a mussuck or mussak.
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**[https://books.google.com.au/books?id=R6mLH_rImHYC&lpg=PT73&ots=i-ES_iUDX0&dq=mussak%20mussuck&pg=PT73 Description of  a raft made from a charpoy bed-frame fastened over two mussaks] by Harry Lumsden  of the Guides, probably c late 1840s,  quoted in ''Soldier Sahibs: The Men Who Made the North-West Frontier'' by Charles Allen Google Books, Also available page 101 [https://archive.org/details/soldiersahibsmen0000alle/page/101/mode/2up  Archive.org/Books to Borrow/Lending Library version].
 
**C 1857 Illustration:  [https://archive.org/stream/cavalryexperien00ouvrgoog#page/n153/mode/2up  page 125] ''Cavalry Experiences and Leaves from My Journal'' by Colonel H A Ouvry 1892 Archive.org
 
**C 1857 Illustration:  [https://archive.org/stream/cavalryexperien00ouvrgoog#page/n153/mode/2up  page 125] ''Cavalry Experiences and Leaves from My Journal'' by Colonel H A Ouvry 1892 Archive.org
***[https://archive.org/stream/lightsshadesofhi00gore#page/n220/mode/1up Photograph: Senais on the Sutlej] facing page 122, with a [https://archive.org/stream/lightsshadesofhi00gore#page/120/mode/2up description], page 121, ''Lights & Shades of Hill Life in the Afghan and Hindu Highlands of the Punjab, a Contrast''  by F St J Gore 1895 Archive.org. With photographs by the author.
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**[http://www.getty.edu/art/collection/objects/202213/samuel-bourne-mussucks-for-crossing-the-beas-below-bajoura-english-1866/  Photograph: Mussucks for Crossing the Beas below Bajoura 1866] (North West India), by Samuel Bourne. From an album of photographs. J. Paul Getty Museum.
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**[https://archive.org/stream/lightsshadesofhi00gore#page/n220/mode/1up Photograph: Senais on the Sutlej] facing page 122, with a [https://archive.org/stream/lightsshadesofhi00gore#page/120/mode/2up description], page 121, ''Lights & Shades of Hill Life in the Afghan and Hindu Highlands of the Punjab, a Contrast''  by F St J Gore 1895 Archive.org. With photographs by the author.
 
**[http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/p15195coll29/item/62 Crossing the Sutlej near Simla upon inflated animal skins] c 1905 University of Houston Digital Library. From  ''India Illustrated: Being a Collection of Pictures of the Cities of Bombay, Calcutta and Madras, Together with a Selection of the Most Interesting Buildings and Scenes throughout India'',  published by Bennett, Coleman, & Co., publishers of the English language newspaper ''Times of India'', c 1905.
 
**[http://digital.lib.uh.edu/collection/p15195coll29/item/62 Crossing the Sutlej near Simla upon inflated animal skins] c 1905 University of Houston Digital Library. From  ''India Illustrated: Being a Collection of Pictures of the Cities of Bombay, Calcutta and Madras, Together with a Selection of the Most Interesting Buildings and Scenes throughout India'',  published by Bennett, Coleman, & Co., publishers of the English language newspaper ''Times of India'', c 1905.
 
**[http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/photocoll/i/019pho000000181u00035000.html Stereoscopic photograph of inflated bullock skin boat, or dreas, at the side of the river Sutlej] (British Library). Image 35, with a description , [https://archive.org/stream/indiathroughste00ricagoog#page/n129/mode/2up page 123] ''India through the stereoscope : a Journey through Hindustan'' by James Ricalton 1907 Archive.org
 
**[http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/photocoll/i/019pho000000181u00035000.html Stereoscopic photograph of inflated bullock skin boat, or dreas, at the side of the river Sutlej] (British Library). Image 35, with a description , [https://archive.org/stream/indiathroughste00ricagoog#page/n129/mode/2up page 123] ''India through the stereoscope : a Journey through Hindustan'' by James Ricalton 1907 Archive.org
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*[http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b747693?urlappend=%3Bseq=84 C 1890:  a reference to mussaks or inflated skins, used for water travel]. Page 72, also page 74 ''Some Rambles of a Sapper'' by  Brigr-Genl. Herbert Henry Austin. 1928 Hathi Trust Digital Library
 
*[http://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b747693?urlappend=%3Bseq=84 C 1890:  a reference to mussaks or inflated skins, used for water travel]. Page 72, also page 74 ''Some Rambles of a Sapper'' by  Brigr-Genl. Herbert Henry Austin. 1928 Hathi Trust Digital Library
 
* A smaller  inflated sheepskin, usually used as a water-carrier's bag: [http://hdl.handle.net/2027/umn.31951001679470b?urlappend=%3Bseq=121 Illustration: Our Bath] [swimming pool] with a description on [http://hdl.handle.net/2027/umn.31951001679470b?urlappend=%3Bseq=124 page 124] of an inflated sheep’s hide, used for fun in the pool.  '' "Curry & Rice," on Forty Plates, or, The Ingredients of Social Life at "Our Station" in India'' by‬ George Francklin Atkinson 1858 Hathi Trust. Note: Illustration can be rotated.
 
* A smaller  inflated sheepskin, usually used as a water-carrier's bag: [http://hdl.handle.net/2027/umn.31951001679470b?urlappend=%3Bseq=121 Illustration: Our Bath] [swimming pool] with a description on [http://hdl.handle.net/2027/umn.31951001679470b?urlappend=%3Bseq=124 page 124] of an inflated sheep’s hide, used for fun in the pool.  '' "Curry & Rice," on Forty Plates, or, The Ingredients of Social Life at "Our Station" in India'' by‬ George Francklin Atkinson 1858 Hathi Trust. Note: Illustration can be rotated.
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==Travel by air==
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*See [[Aviation]].
  
 
== References ==
 
== References ==

Latest revision as of 06:37, 30 April 2023

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Travel on land

By palanquin or dandy

By horse or bullock drawn vehicle

By motor transport

  • "Roads And Motor Transport In India" by Brigadier-General Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, Adviser on Mechanical Transport Services in India, 1915-19. Journal of the Royal Society of Arts Vol. 68, No. 3529 (July 9, 1920), pp. 541-552 jstor.org. Available to read for free on JSTOR, but first you must register, see Miscellaneous tips

Dak bungalows

  • "Dak Banglas & Their Dark Tales" by Aditi Shah December 12th 2018. Live History India, now an archived webpage. "The word ‘dak’ is Urdu for 'post' and dak banglas were initially built by the British Indian Public Works Department to help postal officers relay the mail in stages."

Inflated animal skins

Travel by air

References

  1. Kolhatkar, Arvind Laying the Dawk - Part 2 Rootsweb India-British-Raj Mailing List 13 May 2015, archived.
  2. "A Tiger Tale" page 16 Warne’s Home Annual 1868 Google Books.
  3. Felice Beato: A Photographer on the Eastern Road , photograph 114, exhibition at the J Paul Getty Museum
  4. Shiraz, Richard kundan from harsi Apna Himachal Yahoo group July 14, 2005, now archived.