User talk:Sarahb: Difference between revisions

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|'''Archived Discussions'''
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|align="right"|[[User:Sarahb/talkarchive1|3/2009 - 9/2009]]
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== Indian Army ==
== Jheeghun ==
I have added (British) to your edit of "Category:Indian Army" to distinguish it from Indian Army 1858-95 and the post-Independence Indian Army both of which you find if you Google "Indian Army". I also found the informative Wikipedia page "Indian Army 1895-1947" which I have added to external links. Hope  you approve.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 05:21, 24 March 2009 (PDT)
Sorry. I have fixed the coordinates. Jheeghun is described as 17 miles from Chutterpore (Chhatarpur). You probably noticed that by mapping the Nerbudda Fild Force route I finally pinpointed Kurrereah as Kararia. I also managed to correct Bhowragarh location. Small triumphs!--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 02:15, 6 October 2009 (PDT)


It's all beinning to look a lot more coherent.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 02:10, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
== Amritsar ==
I liked the photo of the young Sikhs around the Jallianwala Bagh fountain even if it is not "historical". It's a sobering place to visit. As for the licence, you know I'm pretty hazy on this subject. I will go with whatever you think appropriate.<br>
Is the Massacre a bit too one sided to be under Battles? We have the Delhi massacre in that category. We also have the Battle of Trimmoo Ghaut which should be called a massacre as John Nicholson annihilated the 46th BNI. Again there is Cawnpore (Bibigarh) which was no battle but the slaughter of helpless prisoners. Also I am about to write a page for the destruction of the 26th BNI which was wiped out at Ajnala after surrendering. Maybe we should have a Category:Outrages but it is dangerously subjective. A FIBIS policy decision?<br>
I have also made a few pages recently for the outbreak of mutiny at various locations. I have put them under Indian Mutiny obviously but also under Battles and used the Battle Info Box. They can't really go under Mutinies as they would look as though they were separate from the Indian Mutiny. Any suggestions?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:38, 14 October 2009 (PDT)


== Skinner's Horse ==
== Campaign Maps ==
Naively I thought that if it is in Google Books we are in the clear! However we come back to that old problem of the difference between copyright in USA and UK. Dictionary of Indian Biography is a snippet when viewed here. It may or may not be in full view in the US. Phyllis Danko who has been part of the Battles research has sent me PDFs available as downloads from Google Books which are full view for her in New Hampshire but a snipppet for me. Here's the  conundrum: if SHE edits the FIBIwiki, can she use material that is copyright for her but not for UK? If I edit the FIBIwiki using the pdf, am I breaking copyright? Would it make any difference if FIBIS were American based? Globalisation brings such problems. But we need to have the answer.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 02:10, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
I have just found on the Fibiwiki Main Page the link to Fibiwiki Battle Maps. This leads to 44 maps on 9 pages. The inconsistent thing is that they are not battle maps but war or campaign maps. They are also in a random order and as far as I can see you can't search for a title. If you put Sind Campaign into the search bar you get Campaign Court, Chantry Close, Westminster, London W9, UK! They are also in Map format though Terrain format would be preferable. I don't think this is the most helpful link. Have you any influence?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:38, 15 October 2009 (PDT)
 
:Leave it to me Guv. I'll do it today.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:36, 28 March 2009 (PDT)
== BACSA link on RRL Cemeteries ... ==
 
Hi Sarah
Sorry, but I am not happy about you forcing people to do a two-step to get to the BACSA website. The internal link adds no real value. It is far better for folk who are interested to be able to go straight to the horse's mouth.  
Note that the link should be to the BACSA mainpage and not to their publications page. The point of the link is to provide info on BACSA; I've listed the publications. Their list of transcription titles was produced by a not very good scan and at the moment contains a number of typos.
So the question is: will you restore the external link or may I?
Regards [[User:EleanorNeil|EleanorNeil]] 09:16, 25 March 2009 (PDT)


Thanks for reverting the BACSA link Sarah.
: I think it is great to draw attention to the maps on the Fibiwiki Main Page. I just think the link is confusing. Can we link to a Google Maps window showing all the maps as you can when you are logged in and click My Maps? If not, a link to the [http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Category:Campaigns_with_FIBIS_Battle_Maps Category:Campaigns_with_FIBIS_Battle_Maps] with extra explanation would be fine. To me Battle Map or Battlemap indicates a plan showing the disposal of the armed forces on the ground. Campaign maps seems more appropriate or is that just too pedantic?


I have no connection with BACSA but I do know that John Kendall, who is our FIBIS database person, was doing a search facility for BACSA. I think that what you have found is the prototype (his company is Frontis). I would think that it would be sensible to wait until it is properly tied in to the main BACSA site before we made any links. There are a couple of fellow-FIBIS trustees who are also BACSA folk and I could make enquiries if you wish.
:On our earlier subject of what comes under Battles, would it be helpful if the title were 'Battles and Actions' as was the original table?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 04:21, 16 October 2009 (PDT)


Would you also revert the info and link for the BACSA archival files at the British Library. The reason it appeared so clumsily setup was out of necessity. The link you set up was session dependent, so if you try it now it will not work. Sadly there appears to be no way around this, which is why I opted for my method.
==Photographs==
Regards
I need a clarification for a photograph. Can I put up copyright photograph if I ask the photographer for permission (via email) for it to be uploaded to this site. It would still retain it copyright status. It would be for photographs for which free images are difficult to get. Also it can be removed once a free image is found. Thanks. [[User:Rzafar|Rzafar]] 07:51, 7 November 2009 (PST)
[[User:EleanorNeil|EleanorNeil]] 13:02, 25 March 2009 (PDT)


==User Talk==
When I left a message on Sy's User Talk I noticed the Date and Time generated were not correct. [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 22:23, 13 December 2009 (PST)
==Veterinary Surgeon==
Hi Sarah.  Re Veterinary Surgeons/IMS . At least up until 1860 they were part of the IMS, being listed above Warrant Officer Apothecaries.
http://books.google.com/books?id=O94NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR9  1838 Bengal Directory;  http://books.google.com/books?id=ahe1AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PR17 Madras October 1860[[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 14:23, 16 December 2009 (PST)
==Non-British Ancestors==
Hi Sarah  re http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Category:Non-British_Ancestors. The information on this page, being a category, does not show up in a search.Is it possible to put the information into an article? Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 04:44, 20 December 2009 (PST)
==Indian Civil Service==
Hi Sarah I was just looking at a link which Lee added and I think I managed to delete it.I don't know how this happened as I didn't physically delete.I haven't touched it again. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 02:41, 29 December 2009 (PST)
Lee has now fixed this up Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 18:26, 29 December 2009 (PST)
==Scholars or antiquarians‎==
Sorry Sarah I was copying an old link to see if I could find an archived version and somehow I managed to reinstate it. Obviously I am doing something incorrect when I look at past versions.See previous post also. [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 20:41, 3 January 2010 (PST)


Sarah I appreciate your interest. I am an old-fashioned librarian and thus slightly obsessive about detail, but mistakes still happen so it is nice to know that someone is keeping a watchful eye on my work.
== Biographies ==
[[User:EleanorNeil|EleanorNeil]] 10:33, 27 March 2009 (PDT)
Glad you approve. I was going to ask you: Is it worthwhile putting all the biographies on the War page in addition to the specific ones on the Battles pages? I thought a list in the War article would be helpful.


== Page title/web search ==
There is a wealth of information in the archive books that Maureen has found and which I am beginning to explore. Finding  them on the archive site is not very easy. I found Volumes 1 and 2 of the Duke of Wellington's despatches but not a later one covering the 4th Mysore War. I can't decide whether this is because it was not published (wouldn't they have covered his whole period?) or that it has not been digitized (woudn't they have done all of them?).--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 05:08, 6 January 2010 (PST)
Following our earlier discussion on the best title to encourage hits on the web I have been looking at the Regiment titles. The most obvious search term being the shortest, people are likely to look for say "61st Bengal Infantry" or "69th Punjabis". A large number of our titles have Regiment e.g. "38th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry". I don't think we need 'Regiment of' in the title except perhaps for the Britsh Army Infantry but even 2nd Regiment of Foot is likely to be entered as 2nd Foot. There is a mixed approach here. What do you think is the best course?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:02, 25 March 2009 (PDT)


And another point. Many titles have extra detail in brackets such as (Hodson's Horse) or (Seaforth Highlanders). Should we be shortening these?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:10, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
:Thanks for finding Vol III--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)


== Church Details ==
== Redirect ==
This from today's India List. http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/10/stories/2009031052220200.htm Can we nick it for FIBIWIKI?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 05:58, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
Maureen has recently added 3rd Light Dragoons with an on-line book she has found. 3rd Light Dragoons was an earlier name of 17th Dragoons so I transferred the information there. I tried to put a redirect on 3rd Light Dragoons but it doesn't work. Clearly I have lost my marbles again. What have I done wrong?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)


:Thanks for doing this. I hope you don't mind me leaving these things to you. I don't feel confident enough to put stuff in the right place.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:35, 28 March 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah and Sy. The online book in question was written in 1846 and the Regiment was then called the 3rd Light Dragoons. I think this is a different regiment to the 17th Dragoons, which was called 3rd Light Dragoons at a much earlier date. Regards[[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 02:02, 7 January 2010 (PST)


== 19th Regiment of Foot ==
== Bengal Infantry ==
Wanting to add Chronology to this page I found a long article derived from Cathy Day's Website. In order to separate the article from the other content I have done some recasting . I have also removed the request to contact the author (it doesn't seem appropriate for the Fibiwiki). I hope this is not going to upset anyone.<br>
I am trying to get to grips with the chronology of the various Bengal Infantry Regiments before the Mutiny. The archive.org volume [http://www.archive.org/stream/anhistoricalacc00willgoog#page/n7/mode/2up here] has been very useful if a bit muddly but it only goes up to the reorganisation of 1796. I attach the spreadsheet I have made to try to analyse the changes. It contains a number of unresolved contradictions and is not helped by the relatively few details in the regiments.org website [http://web.archive.org/web/20071015183834/www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/lists/ia1859b.htm here]. Our list, in common with others, uses the titles as at the reorganisation of 1824 and I think these remained unchanged until 1857. I have not been able to find any details of the 1824 changes. With your superior internet powers, have you any suggestion where I can look further?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:03, 11 January 2010 (PST)
One thing I couldn't do. The heading "Known as Green Howards" should be under the title and not part of the contents box. How do you do that?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:30, 26 March 2009 (PDT)


:Thanks for looking this over.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:33, 28 March 2009 (PDT)
:Great template. I will of course add it from now on. As you can see I have made some progress revising the BNI pages. I have a feeling I have done the easy bit as I have got to regiments which were formed after the 1796 and before the 1824 reorganisation. I am not sure yet how we track them. For instance the 14th BNI started in 1765 but its number changed to 19th in 1775. The 24th BNI became 14th in 1775 but mutinied and was disbanded in 1795. The 20th became the 14th in 1795 but changed to 2nd Btn 10th in 1796. A new 14th was formed in 1824 from 1st Btn 10th and it is the 1824 numbers that we are using in our list. Perhaps we should have a table with the regiment numbers listed vertically and cells along the row to link to the pedigree of the regiment in 1764, 1775, 1781, 1796 etc. Any thoughts?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 00:47, 16 January 2010 (PST)


== Belwar Fort ==
==Society Reading List==
There is a page for Belwar in Locations as well as Belwar Fort. Should they be linked/amalgamated?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 04:23, 28 March 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah Could you change the link mentioned for George Atkinson, author of Curry and Rice,as the existing one no longer works. It is the second link, not the one to the actual book Curry and Rice.  http://www.archive.org/stream/balladsofburmaan00oolarich#page/4/mode/2up
Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 02:13, 16 January 2010 (PST)
==100th Regiment of Foot/92nd Regiment of Foot==
Hi Sarah. I have just added a link here. All the time the Regiment was in India it was known as the 92nd Foot, I think that is the more meaningful heading, not the 100th Foot. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 03:24, 17 January 2010 (PST)


== Madras Infantry Regiments ==
== Gordon Highlanders ==
I am trying to get a grip on the chronology of the Punjabi Regiments and this has led me to the antecedents of some who were the Madras Infantry. I have created two Articles: Madras European Infantry and Madras Native Infantry which I have put in a category of Madras Infantry which is a subcategory of Madras Infantry Regiments. I have now had doubts about the hierarchy. Should the order be Madras Infantry with subcategories European and Native with articles for the regiments? Please advise and recast as you think fit.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:30, 29 March 2009 (PDT)
Looking at the pages I think the current page should be renamed 92nd Regt and a new page made for 100th. 75th and 92nd joined in 1881 to become 1st and 2nd Btn Gordon Highlanders. There were several 100th Regts see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100th_Regiment_of_Foot Wikipedia]. Our new 100th page could sweep up the various strands. The one that fought in India was [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100th_Regiment_of_Foot_(Loyal_Lincolnshire_Regiment) this one].


== 30 March ==
I am struggling with a head full of Bengal Infantry at the moment. If you agree with the above we could change the title and put a note on the 100th page "coming soon". I will put it on my list.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:56, 18 January 2010 (PST)
*'''[[Belwar]] & [[Belwar (Fort)]]'''
My page for Battle of Belwar Fort now has the link to the gazetteer entry describing Belwar/Bilwa as 20 miles southeast of Gorakhpur in 1857. Whether it exists as a place now I don't know. Meanwhile separate articles is fine by me.


*'''Madras infantry matters'''
== Bengal Infantry ==
It is all very confusing because the names of regiments changed so often. If you have a look at 7th Regiment of Madras Native Infantry you will see that they were once 7th Regiment of Madras Infantry. Both names appear in the various infantry regiment lists and as they refer to the same unit I have put a redirect for 7th Regiment of Madras Infantry.<br>
Sarah, I have had a shot at a table to access the various regiments at different times. Would you mind having a look at [[Bengal Infantry Table]]. The idea is to list the regiments in chronological order for each of the critical dates and link the regiment number to the relevant regiment page. I have put in a few as an example. I now realise that this wont cover all the variables. For instance 19th Battalion was raised in 1764 but was broken up in 1781. This doesn't feature so far on our regiment pages which only covers the replacement 19th which is shown on our page for [[17th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry]]. Any suggestions as to how we can address this?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 11:09, 18 January 2010 (PST)


European regiments were amalgamated with the British Army in 1860. 'Native' regiments continued until the abolition of the Presidency Armies in the 1890s. So I think the logical approach is to put the full chronology under the Presidency Army and, where the regiment survived the Mutiny, put the later title under the Indian Army with a redirection. Therefore the 7th Regiment of Madras Native Infantry is listed under Madras Infantry Regiments and the 7th Regiment of Madras Infantry is listed under the Indian Army Infantry Regiments. Do you think that is OK?<br>
==Military online autobiographies==
Hi Sarah and Sy: Can you suggest a page for military autobiographies where they seem to have changed regiments a lot, so you can’t put them on the Regiments page, I can't work  what war or battle to place them in, but the book seems to contain content of interest. Would a section on the bottom of [[Chronological list of Wars and Campaigns]] be satisfactory?<br>
Eg
*[http://books.google.com/books?id=jIUEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PP7 Memoirs of the early life and service of a field officer on the retired list of the Indian army]by Major David Price 1839 Google Books (service from 1780)
*[http://books.google.com/books?id=sUjRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR3 Military reminiscences: extracted from a journal of nearly forty years' active service in the East Indies Volume 1] by James Welsh of the Madras Establishment 1830 [http://books.google.com/books?id=8UjRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PP13 Volume 2] (Service from 1790)
*[http://www.archive.org/stream/fortyoneyearsin00unkngoog#page/n100/mode/1up Forty One Years in India: From subaltern to commander-in-chief Volume 1] by Field Marshal Lord Roberts of Kandahar 1897 Chapter 6 onwards. Archive.org (I did put this one under Indian Mutiny) [http://www.archive.org/stream/fortyoneyearsin02robegoog#page/n11/mode/1up Volume 2] 1898  Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 22:44, 18 January 2010 (PST)


The same thing will apply to the European regiments. 1st Madras (European) Fusiliers will appear under Madras Infantry Regiments and its later incarnation the 102nd (Royal Madras Fusiliers) Regiment should be listed under Indian Army Infantry Regiments.<br>


I have got Peter's book and it has some useful detail about the structure of the armies but of course doesn't address these issues of cataloguing.<br>
I suggest these general biographies could be put on the war pages as well as any special Military Biography page.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)


Thanks for sorting my muddle over where to put the two articles on Madras Infantry. I have only just realised how you format titles so they are at the top of the list and not buried alphabetically/numerically.<br>
Hi Sarah and Sy: i found out more about Major David Price and was able to place him, I hope correctly. James Welsh was in the Poligar War. Realised to day these are the Polygar Wars.However what is there for the 1st and 2nd Polygar War is a Category, not an article and does not come up in searching. Could you copy the information onto an artice, and I will add an external link. Thanks [[User:Maureene|Maureene]]
Hi Sarah Thanks for altering this. [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 18:09, 21 January 2010 (PST)


*'''Wars/battles dates in categories'''
==More on Bengal Infantry ==
I do like the idea of chronological lists. Is there an easy way we can set this up so it can be done as we edit each event rather than going laboriously back through the whole list?
I have a suggestion for the problem I raised above. Please have a look at [[19th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry]] and tell me what you think. Maybe the box size/colour could be adjusted.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)


*'''Recent  edits'''
== Bengal regiments again ==
I see you have been changing my ==== Known as 22nd Punjabis ==== to '''Known as 22nd Punjabis'''. I assume this is because of the problem I had earlier with the title appearing in the index box. Ideally I was hoping to have the title a bit bigger than you get using the '''Bold''' tool. Any suggestions?<br>--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:42, 30 March 2009 (PDT)
Sounds fine to me. I didn't like the appearance of the boxed panel anyway


== Bilwa ==
I have just expanded the table to four panels of 20 regiments with links filled in for the 74 regiment which existed in 1824. This gives an idea of the whole page. Comments?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:41, 19 January 2010 (PST)
Thanks for the link to the newspaper article. I have cut and pasted it onto  the Belwar page as an image. Ideally it should be a bit smaller. Can this be done in the Fibiwiki (other than the thumb option)?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:54, 1 April 2009 (PDT)


Well done for finding it on the map. Must be the place as it checks with the coordinates in the Gazetteer. I have corrested the coordinates, mounted a map extract and added the external link to your account of the Naval Brigade.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:41, 2 April 2009 (PDT)
== Bengal Infantry Table==
Well I am off for a month tomorrow morning and must draw a line under this. You will see that I have entered the first 30 odd regiments on the Bengal Infantry Table. I have created some of the early units as Battalions but there are still gaps and the whole thing needs a thorough going over as I am sure there are contradictions. If we could find another list of regiments as a cross check it would help. I don't think we are ready for this page to go live yet so I haven't added a category link. Talk to you again at the end of February. Regards --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 09:53, 21 January 2010 (PST)
==Hyderabad Contingent==
Hi Sarah, I made an article for this, hope this was the right thing to do.  Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 18:33, 21 January 2010 (PST)


== Chronological Lists ==
==Singapore==
Picking out points in the order of your comments:
Hi Sarah I haven't read every link of the medical history articles I have added, but most of the ones I did read had the names of people scattered throughout and some had quite a lot of names. Even the others I thought added a sense of the social conditions at the time which could be of interest to those who had ancestors living at the time. I still have some other links to add but will not do so if you think they are not relevant. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 17:05, 8 February 2010 (PST)
*Yes there are lots of battles that don't form part of campaigns but generally during the Mutiny. If I knew more I might be able to identify all the campaigns in the mutiny but I am not sure whether they would still include all the battles. Many of the battles could be grouped where they were actions by a particular army unit such as the Sarun Field Force or the Central Indian Field Force. I just don't know enough.
*The page looks fine. What  category will it be under? Are we going to mix up campaigns and battles or have separate lists? What happens when a war spans two of your double decades?
*Do we now need to go through the wars and campaigns and remove the dates in the title? This is laborious because you can't change the title of a category by moving it as you can with an article. As far as I know we will have to go through and change the internal links in all the battles associated with the particular campaign.<br>--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:59, 2 April 2009 (PDT)


In reply to your reply.  
==Citation and Doctor==
Hi Sarah I have not been successful doing a citation and half the article [[Doctor]] now doesn't appear. Initially I put Notes at the end of Bengal Individuals and then at the end of the article.Also I didn't know whether just to put==before Notes, or whether more were needed, as it was in a section that already had===. However, overriding all this I must have done something incorrect as  now nothing  in the article appears after the citation. Sorry  [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 20:35, 10 February 2010 (PST)
==Calcutta cemeteries==
No time to finish off. Will do some more tomorrow night. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 04:52, 14 February 2010 (PST)


I think we should not muddle up Campaigns and Battles on the same list. Let's just get on with the Campaigns chronological list and see how we feel later.
Thanks Sarah for the link you gave. I didn't realise the Archive catalogue was on the BACSA site. The way I did the links seemed clearest to me, but you may feel they should be done differently. Regards  [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 02:37, 15 February 2010 (PST)


I suggest for the few campaigns that overlap two double decades we put them in the section in which they started.
== Bengal Infantry ==
I would be happy with Bengal Infantry Finder. The highlighting helps legibility. I did think that the later tables which are not so wide could go side by side but that is beyond my powers. I have noticed some duplication in our Bengal Army pages:


I'll have ago at adding to the page and see how much of a mess I make.
We have '''Category:Bengal Infantry Regiments''' which lists all the Bengal infantry regiments and we have '''Bengal Army Regiments''' which also lists them (I prefer the layout of the latter where 1st precedes 10th) plus a whole lot of local contingents most of which are post Mutiny and don't yet have articles plus regiments of the Punjab Irregular Force which are duplicated under '''Category:Punjab Frontier Force Infantry'''. Then we have a list of Punjab Infantry regiments in red but these in fact have articles with a different title under '''Category:Indian Army Infantry Regiments''' - see 22nd Punjab Infantry/22nd Regiment of Punjab Infantry.


--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 00:56, 4 April 2009 (PDT)
We seem to be getting in a muddle by on the one hand dividing the regiment list before and after the Mutiny and on the other trying to list all the Bengal Regiments up to the amalgamation of the Presidencies in 1895. The same applies to the cavalry regiments.


== H M Regiments ==
I think we should stick to the Mutiny as the division point. What do you feel? In any case we need to add redirection to those in red which actually have articles.
I know it's picky but I don't like the title H.M.'s Regiments. Convention says we leave out the apostrophe as in H.M. Government. It is a clumsy looking beast. Also I have been corrected before by other editors for putting stops after initials (as in J. K. Rowling). Should we leave them out as well?  What do you think?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:02, 4 April 2009 (PDT)


== 80th Regiment of Foot ==--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:33, 12 May 2009 (PDT)
Regards--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 09:57, 25 February 2010 (PST)
I have recently come across several pages with imported text from Cathy Day's website. I have edited them using your amendments of the 19th Regiment of Foot as a model. Would you mind looking over them? They are so far 80th, 81st, 82nd and 84th Regts. Thanks--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:13, 9 April 2009 (PDT)


:Thanks for reviewing these pages Sarah. As usual your editing was accurate and succinct. It would be great to have articles as full as 84th Foot and I always have to stop myself being dragged off on interesting lines of enquiry which pop up on the net. I guess the priority is to get the general framework developed and hope others will fill in over time.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:24, 15 April 2009 (PDT)
== Columns ==
When I open the page the columnation has chopped up the last table so the column headings are separated. I think without columns is the lesser of two poor layouts. Thanks for sorting the position of the reference. What was the reason for it ?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:38, 2 March 2010 (PST)


== 4th Gurkha Rifles ==
== Bengal Infantry again again==
Sorry Sarah. Clearly a temporary loss of grip. I should have realised there was already a page. I'll qualify to fly solo one day.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 00:48, 6 May 2009 (PDT)
Well, thanks to your BL information I was able to sort out my spreadsheet and with a bit of guesswork eliminated all the anomalies. From this I have recast the Bengal Infantry Finder looking at every one of the 550 cells again. I am sure there are a few errors and I really should have one more trawl through but I was losing the will to live. I would like to have your comments now and a note of any mistakes you find by the odd spot check. I will then finish it off.


== 33rd Punjabis ==
Since you also sent me some stuff on the other presidencies I thought I would have a go at Madras Regiments. I remember I tried to sort them out last year with middling success.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 09:21, 14 March 2010 (PDT)
I see you prefer a redirection here. I thought about it but on balance took the other view. The question is: do we include any title variation on the basis that someone may use that term in a search? If we do, there is no limit to the number of mistaken or ill-judged titles we admit.
In this case I believe the proper title for the regiment was 33rd Punjab Regiment of Infantry. They were commonly called 33rd Punjabis and I have mentioned that on the page. I have never seen them (or any of the other Punjab Infantry) referred to as 33rd Punjabi Infantry. I therefore decided that title was better removed.
However it's no big deal in the great scheme of things.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:52, 6 May 2009 (PDT)


== Chronological list of wars and campaigns ==
: Thanks for the feedback. I have corrected the two blunders. 1795 was the year that Capt Williams used as a base year and where I got a lot of my information from. In 1796 the 36 battalions were condensed into 12 regiments of two battalions each. Pargana was the Hindustani word for a tax area. There is an external link on each of the Purgunnah Battalion pages: [http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MU-Ste-h1vMC&pg=PA67&dq=Purgunnah+Battalions&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Purgunnah%20Battalions&f=false Purgunnah Battalions] --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:54, 15 March 2010 (PDT)
I have just had a look at this and must say you have done a great job. It gives a really clear picture of the order of events. I know you suggested that I help with the construction, but in view of my recent ragged editing, it is probably just as well I didn't. Are we now going to take the dates off the War titles as Valmay would prefer? Did you get anywhere with a method for this or will it be a tedious process?
Do you think it would be a good idea to do a similar list for the NWF Campaigns? I am willing to lend a hand if you wish.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 00:44, 8 May 2009 (PDT)
:You have done a huge amount of work Sarah. I am sure the chronological lists will be well worth it.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 09:50, 14 May 2009 (PDT)


== 4th Hussars ==
==Apothecary==
There must be something strange about the link to Shadows of Time. I have just tested the 4th Hussars Regimental Records page that you removed and it works fine. It would be good to reinstate it if we can. It has a wealth of genealogical information.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:33, 12 May 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah. I agree the article is getting  long, so it would be best to split of the Individuals as you suggest  [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 17:35, 19 March 2010 (PDT)


==Macao Expedition==
I have seen no other Macao Expedition so have removed the date from the title and have added it to the chronological list. I have categorized it as Wars and Campaigns (though it might equally be under Minor Campaigns) and Napoleonic War. I hope you agree. I have also changed the spelling to the old spelling to link it to the Location page. Also a few internal links and other stuff which perhaps you could vet. I don't know  Nick Adams - I hope he wont be upset but this surgery.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:18, 25 March 2010 (PDT)
==Forums/Message boards/ELs==
Hi Sarah. Thanks for the reasoning. Regards  [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 22:38, 8 April 2010 (PDT)


== 1st Belooch Regiment ==
==District Info box==
hi, I think we can use the old one with a slight alteration - add the headquarter info to it and remove the altitude (as it varies). Coordinates would  help with location. About the image: it should remain  - does not necessarily have to be for a map - could be any interesting image of the province. just my thoughts. regards [[User:Rzafar|Rzafar]] 03:19, 16 April 2010 (PDT)


OK Fine. I'll reinstate it. If it doesn't have a category where does it lurk?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:57, 15 May 2009 (PDT)
== Digital Library of India ==
:(see Special Pages, List redirects) Where it that?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 04:51, 16 May 2009 (PDT)
Maureen has just put a link on the Indian Mutiny page to the Digital Library of India. I can't seem to make it connect to anything coherent. Is it me? The same link is on 13th BNI page. BTW I have found the archive.org History of the Indian Mutiny which I have added.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 09:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


== Agra rail map ==
== User status ==
One of the ways I tried to fix the cite problem meant that sysops would lose editing rights, unless they were a member of another group that had editing rights, so I added you to the bot group too. I'm not using that way now, so I can remove you if you prefer.


I uploaded the Agra rail map (no worries about copyright) and popped it on the Agra page. You suggested you would attend to the stations. Can I ask a favour? I created content for "How to interpret this infobox" which can be found by clicking [[How to interpret this infobox|here]]. I need someone to critically cast their eye over what I have written and come back to me with straightforward observations like "I would have wanted to know about X but it only told me Y." (I can then add Z.)  Would you mind? [[User:HughWilding|HughWilding]] 13:32, 15 May 2009 (PDT)
BTW - I also changed the CSS so that cite references are slightly smaller and highlighted blue when clicked whilst I was playing with it. I think it makes it easier to see which ref you are being referred to, but if you prefer the old way I can change it back. --[[User:Valmay|FIBIS Webmaster]] 14:57, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


== Recent edits ==
==[[Civil Service reading list]]==
Additional wording suggested:
After    "Check the FIBIS Online Bookshop for availability of recommended titles and more information" add: under the heading Indian Civil Service.


I am afraid this exercise is involving you in a lot of work which has been caused by my dating the campaigns. Thanks for getting it back on track. And thanks for doing the NWF Chronological List – a great asset.
Also add [http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/30/books/review/30sherman.html New York Times Review]  Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 05:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
:Do you mean a chronological list of battles in each war? Sounds like a lot of work.I have been (rather patchily) adding Actions on the various War pages.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:52, 20 May 2009 (PDT)


A few comments on the latest batch:
== Naval matters ==
Thanks Sarah. I was unaware of this section. I have two articles: Shannon's Naval Brigade and Pearl's Naval Brigade. I have made categories for each. Do you think these categories should be removed and the articles put under Category:Naval and Maritime? or maybe Category:Navy?. I would like your advice. Thanks.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)


Battles no longer appear on the Browse Content section of the Main Page but are under Wars and Campaigns. Shouldn’t they be a separate category under Military?
== 19th Light Dragoons ==
You are quite right Sarah. I was drunk with power and didn't check the links. In principle I think we should use the contemporary regiment titles when listing the forces of a particular campaign. That means we either need an article for that title with a redirect or we put in a portmanteau link. I don't think it realistic to create articles and redirects for all the former titles so inevitably we have many many portmanteau internal links. It will never be black and white however so I am happy for you to reinstate 19th Light Dragoons. I don't think I am able to do it.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


If you put “Battles” into the Search Box the first item is ‘List of Battles & Actions in British India 1600-1900’.  Peter agreed some time ago that this list is redundant now that the majority of Battles have edited pages. I put it in the For Deletion category temporarily with a suggestion that it should not be deleted but put in archive somewhere. Generally speaking we don’t want users accessing this list let alone wasting time editing it.
== Internal/external links ==
Has Hugh discussed this issue with you? Have a look at my post on his page.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)


Baizai Expedition: You have added ‘The Baizai Expedition of 1849 saw the Battle of Baizai Territory’. The original Battle entry was ‘Battle of Baizai Territory’ but like many others it wasn’t a battle but a NWF campaign. I converted it to Baizai Expedition. If you put ‘Baizai Territory’ into Search you get the Location page with a circular reference back to the expedition! As you know there is a page titled ‘Battle of Baizai Territory’ but it is one of those phantom pages without a category which takes you round the circle again. Surely it can be deleted.
== Historic Guns ==
:I now appreciate what you say about double redirects. I will try to check for links as I go along.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:52, 20 May 2009 (PDT)
I have just had a look at this article and think you have done a great job sorting out the pictures. It is editing far beyond my capabilities. Am I right that there are still a few Sutlej guns to be formatted? Let me know when you reckon you have finished so we can ask Elizabeth Hancox for her comments.  


Bozdari Expedition: Same issues as Baizai Expedition.
The guns page led me to do a couple of new articles under Ordnance. Any comments on Infantry Weapons and Mountain Guns would be appreciated.


Battle of Umbeyla: Another of those phantom pages. I have added a link to the Location page “Umbeyla”.
Thanks. --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)


I hope these are not too nitpicking.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:51, 20 May 2009 (PDT)
== Map template ==
I have just made a Google Map of the 17thC HEIC Factories locations. Realising that the Battle Map template is not appropriate, I have tried to make a new Map template. Have a look at the East India Company page. It is rather crude and, if we use the map image I have chosen, the text would be better below the image. If you have time to refine it, I would be grateful.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 17:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)


== Hyderabad Subsidiary Force ==
==Green Template link to FIBIS Google Books Library==
There seem to have been several contingents of troops under the Nizam. Many of them came together under the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Royal_Deccan_Horse 9th Deccan Royal Horse]. I will have a go at sorting them out. Incidentally there are dozens of units under Auxillary Regiments that I haven't even begun to look at.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:52, 20 May 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah. I have noticed the link is broken for some of the links from the green template to the FIBIS  Google Books Library,, eg for the template on [[Indian Mutiny]], [[Burma]], [[Life in India#Passage to India]]. I tried to replace these links , based on one which is still working which is located on the page [[British India]]. On my first, and only attempt, on the page [[Indian Mutiny]] I was partially successful, in that the link goes to the Google Books Library, but it doesn't go to the category Indian Mutiny. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 21:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC) Hi Sarah currently I have a working link, although for how long I don't know. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 04:41, 18 November 2010 (UTC)


== Polygar War ==
== Reginald Malpas Gore ==
This seems to have followed the 4th Maratha War. It wasn't included in Peter's Battle List. I will put it on my 'to do' list.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:52, 20 May 2009 (PDT)
Hello Sarah<br />
I have now received from David Gore better res images of his father's photos. I have put them on the page but as usual my limited skills have been unable to arrange them neatly without encroaching on the paragraph below. Could you please work your magic on them? They are all thumbnails as this seems the only format which includes the title. Regards--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 12:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


== Mharwara Battalion ==
:Just to let you know I have fixed the images by adding a gallery. --[[User:Valmay|FIBIS Webmaster]] 17:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
My brief research suggests that Mhairwara is correct. I think move it. I agree we should omit The from titles. I will move them as I go through.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:52, 20 May 2009 (PDT)


== Nizam's Army ==
== People by occupation ==
You are quite right. They shouldn't be under Madras Army. You will see from my notes on the pages of the Hyderabad Contingent Regiments that the Hyderabad Contingent was part of the Nizam's Army though I imagine, due to the location of Hyderabad, contact with HEIC was with the Madras Presidency. It is better as a separate category. I recently found this list of State Forces which I was going to try to reconcile with the regiments we already have documented:
Thanks for your message Sarah. You are the wiki expert so I'll go along with however you feel it should be organised. When I started the Military Commanders biographies I found a lot of single people under Ocupations so I relocated them to People. I have also created a Category for Military Commanders with British, French, Indian and Other subcategories. If you feel this needs re-casting, please let me know. The sticking point for me was putting East India Company under Category:People by Occupation when it is manifestly neither a person or an occupation. Thanks for your help.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


Hyderabad State Forces: His Exalted Highness the Nizam’s Regular Forces: Deccan District - Hyderabad Headquarters<br>
== Battle of Josshouse Hill ==
1st (Nizam’s Own) Hyderabad Imperial Service Lancers: Asufnagar<br>
Someone has inserted irrelevant text on this page and the Talk page. I have undone it. You might have a look at the History to check I have done the right thing.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 07:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
2nd (Nizam’s Own) Hyderbad Imperial Service Lancers: Golconda. Chawan Muhamundi<br>
3rd Hyderabad (Nizam’s Own) Golconda Lancers: Golconda Fort<br>
Hyderabad Cavalry Training Squadron: Asafnagar<br>
‘A’ Battery, Hyderabad Horse Artillery: Mullapalli<br>
1st Hyderabad Infantry: Goshamahal<br>
2nd Hyderabad Infantry: Chandraingutta<br>
3rd Hyderabad Infantry (Nizam’s Own): Saifabad<br>
Hyderabad Infantry Training Company: Nampally, Saifabad<br>


We may find other Princely State Forces which will require categories.  
==Journal cover pic==
Noted, although it has been on the page [[FIBIS Journal]] since November 2009, and was uoloaded by another. Would it be possible to upload some, or all of the FIBIS Journal covers, which are cuurently used for the Journals in the FIBIS shop and I could add them to the page [[FIBIS Journal]]. Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] 12:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


Anyway I got distracted tracking down the Madras Infantry Regiments. This led me to trying to sort out the Madras Cavalry Regiments which kept changing numbers in accordance with the age of their commanding officers! I am in the middle of recasting them. Generally I am redirecting them to the later incarnations in the Indian Army Cavalry but sometimes the changing numbers will require alternative redirections depending on which year you want to find the regiment. Clear as mud? I have chosen the page entry titles as in 1788 for pre-Mutiny entries in the Madras Cavalry and 1903 for the post Mutiny entries in the Indian Army Cavalry. I hope this works out.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 11:44, 4 June 2009 (PDT)
== Images ==
Hi Sarah<br />Belated thanks for organising all the images in the Elizabeth Guns article. Sorry I didn't enter them correctly first time. Having been out of circulation for a while I missed the notifications. Regards --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 12:10, 31 October 2011 (PDT)


== Tables ==
==Indian Subordinate Medical Service==
Thanks for that. I'll give it a go.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:22, 10 June 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah,  the ISM Service is different  to the ISM Department, according to this  Google Books link http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PShpbwti_3EC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=Indian+Subordinate+Medical+Service&source=bl&ots=RpsqnAStyB&sig=POStCCl2jHkwfNhmvvUIUPih-9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cBXoUpiKOIq4iQeyvYHQDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Indian%20Subordinate%20Medical%20Service&f=false - Regards[[User:Maureene|Maureene]] ([[User talk:Maureene|talk]])


== Duar War ==
==Apothecary==
I will certainly add it in. Thanks. I will be away for two weeks from 16 June so you wont see much activity. --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:22, 10 June 2009 (PDT)
Hi Sarah, I must say I don’t agree with the quick definition of Apothecary which has been added.


== Google Maps ==
“Initially, under the East India Company, this was a junior medical orderly.”
How do you think the maps are coming? The ones relating to my three new subcategories of 1st Afghan War could be linked now though they will need a few refinements. I haven't spent any time investigating how to use your Map Template yet.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 13:22, 10 June 2009 (PDT)


== Wars ==
I don’t think it could be said that an Apothecary was ever a junior medical orderly, at least not in Australian terms, where an orderly does nothing to do with matters of treatment at all. Maybe when they first started their training as boys  this terminology might apply, but not trained Apothecaries. In 1812 boys were to be trained as “Compounders and Dressers, and ultimately as Apothecaries and Sub Assistant Surgeons”
Hi Sarah. I think the wars infobox is great. I also like the way the map template fits under it.<br>
May I suggest:
*We have used numerals for the war titles generally (1st Afghan War) but letters for the title in the infobox (First Afghan War). Should we be consistent or is there a better reason to change?
*The date format 1839-42 seems to have become our norm rather than 1777 to 1782.  
*I am uncertain about what should go into the Links section. In the 1st Afghan War article we have the category and its subcategories; which is fine. In the 1st Maratha War category we have the same category which of course is not a link to itself.<br>
Actually I am still confused as to when entries should be articles or categories. The 1st Afghan War article has the infobox, troop strength, recommended reading and external links. The category has troops strength, subcategories and articles including the 1st Afghan War article. Isn't there a certain amount of duplication/circularity here?  Also it is the 1st Maratha War category that has the infobox as there is no article. Do you intend that all the category pages have an article page of the same name where the infobox and detailed information resides?<br>
Anyway the infobox is a great idea and I will happily add it to the war pages as I go if you can get through my muddle.<br>
Thanks for recent edits by the way. Sometimes I feel like a careless child whose parent is forever tidying up after them.<br> Regards--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 05:13, 24 July 2009 (PDT)


== 16th Irregular Cavalry ==
If you read down the Apothecary page it says “Medical College training for Hospital Apprentices was introduced in 1847 in Bengal following the system that had previously been successfully introduced in Madras. "General Order 200" dated 15 June 1847 is about Apprenticeships in the Bengal Subordinate Medical Department. It sets out that candidates would sit an examination to become an apprentice. Those successful would serve for two years as an apprentice in the Hospital of a European Regiment or General Hospital. They then may be selected by the Medical Board for a studentship in the Medical College. They would then attend a two year course of study comprising Anatomy, Dissection, Materia Medica, Pharmaceutical Chemistry, the practice of Medicine and Surgery and more especially clinical instruction in connection with the last two branches. At the end of the two years they were to undergo an examination. If successful they were to be drafted to European Regiments or to the General Hospital, there to wait their turn for promotion as Assistant Apothecaries or Assistant Stewards. Promotion to Apothecary was also to be by examination.
Sorry that was a typo. I can see you are right on my tail so I had better confess. I am trawling through the regiments using the archive link to regiments.org and filling in those units which mutinied. This has caused some renaming and alteration of former redirections. I fear I may have left a trail of destruction. The principle I am trying to follow is a page for the regiment before the mutiny in the Bengal Army then a new page for the successor regiment in the Indian Army. In fact I believe the regiments were reformed about 1861 and were actually still in the Bengal Army and  were only later moved into the Indian Army after the abolition of the Presidencies in the 1890s. I can't see a cleaner way of dividing it at the moment. Any comments?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 11:07, 30 July 2009 (PDT)


== Welcome Break ==
Even comparing an Apothecary to a senior nurse is not correct, at least for the Australian situation, because no nurses would have studied, or would perform surgery. I think a lower ranked doctor would be more accurate terminology, or possibly a senior nurse who performed surgery.
I will be away from 3-20 August so you will have a respite from my errors.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 11:07, 30 July 2009 (PDT)


== Chronologies ==
By the time the Indian Army was established in 1895, the term Assistant Surgeon was the term then used, and I believe by training they were regarded as fully qualified medical men.
Oh Gawd, it all seemed so simple when I started out!<br>
<br> Regards [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] ([[User talk:Maureene|talk]])  
 
<br>Sarah, now changed, per your comment on my User page [[User:Maureene|Maureene]] ([[User talk:Maureene|talk]]) 1 February 2014
I originally decided to allocate regiments as follows<br>
'''The Madras, Bengal and Bombay Army listings would contain:'''<br>
a) regiments under their originating name which didn't survive the mutiny .<br>
b) regiments which were formed before 1895 (when the Indian Army was officially designated) using their original name. These would generally have a redirection to the listing in the Indian Army under their later name.<br>
'''The Indian Army listings would contain:'''<br>
a) all regiments formed before the mutiny with continuity through 1895 listed under their 1895 name<br>
b) regiments which were formed after the mutiny listed under their originating name.<br>
 
You are right that the 17th Bengal Native Infantry ceased to exist during the mutiny and the name was given for three years (I have no idea why) to the Sirmoor Rifle Regiment which later became the 2nd Gurkha Rifles. As there was no connection between the units I have not made a link between the two. But you are right to point out that someone may be searching for the '1861' 17th Bengal Native Infantry not the '1765' 17th Bengal Native Infantry and would not easily find it. I guess some reference to the later use of the name would be a good idea.<br>
Another point is that, under my methodology, the Sirmoor Battalion should be listed under Bengal Infantry Regiments with a redirection to 2nd Gurkha Rifles.<br>
 
Now for the problem of the 12th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry
 
Shah Shujah was the ruler the British put on the throne in the 1st Afghan War. His unit was taken into the Bengal Army after the war as The Regiment of Khelat-i-Ghilzie. I got into a muddle because the title 12th Bengal Native Infantry was used both for the regiment that mutinied and the one that became the Bombay Pioneers. I hope I have now disentangled it by changing the name of 12th Bengal Native Infantry in the Indian Army Infantry to 12th (Khelat-i-Ghilzie) Bengal Infantry and by reinstating 12th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry under Bengal Infantry with a comment on the subsequent use of the name. There is an entry for 12th Bengal Native Infantry without a category and with a redirection to 12th Bengal Native Infantry (but there seems to be a double redirect in there which I can't figure out). 
 
Let me know your opinion on the allocation of entries to the various armies.
 
Regards--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 08:54, 31 July 2009 (PDT)
 
== Affghanistan! ==
For once my misspelling was intentional. The Battle Honours were awarded with the spelling of the time and that is how they are recorded in the regimental archives. I have taken the view that they should be entered verbatim e.g Mooltan, Pekin etc. I haven't changed it back in case you have a strong contrary view. Regards --[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 06:31, 10 September 2009 (PDT)
 
== Oude Campaign ==
Brave or foolish. I fully admit that I am rather unclear as to the various phases of the Mutiny but I thought if I plunged in things might unravel.
 
One of the puzzles is the lists I have recently found of actions in the Oude Campaign do not include those I previously came across involving Brigadier Troup. For the moment I have put them all on one page. Another is that the so-called Delhi Campaign includes a lot more that the Siege of Delhi. Also for a long time I have been trying to get further details on the Trans-Gogra Campaign - was it part of the Oude Campaign or something separate? There was also a Trans-Rapti Campaign.
 
My Google Earth Placemarks show graphically the locations of all the Indian Mutiny actions I have researched and I will perhaps be able to allocate the battles to the campaigns using that. To do this though I need to give a different colour to the mutiny placemarks to distinguish them from the hundreds of other battles. Not sure if I can face that at the moment. I think I will just plug on with the fibiwiki. I might start some Google Maps with different coloured placemarks for the different commanding officers. Could bring some clarity.
 
If you know of anyone with a better grasp of the Mutiny, I would welcome some enlightenment. I have been relying largely on the book by Saul David which I get out of the library periodically.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:03, 11 September 2009 (PDT)
 
== FIBIS Library ==
I have just seen the e-mail about the FIBIS Google Book Library. I know we talked about this some time ago because I remember asking someone how to group the books into separate categories. Did I ever give you my Google Library for incorporating? There are over 200 separate entries. I presume I could export the list.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 01:29, 11 September 2009 (PDT)
 
== Madras NI ==
Sorry. Put it down to drink/drugs/senility.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:27, 15 September 2009 (PDT)
 
== Image Upload ==
I see from your edit of Battle of Aong that the image has disappeared. The history says that I uploaded it from the University of Texas map collection in January 2008. Can't understand where it has gone.
Anyway trying to recap I couldn't find Aong on the U of T maps but I did find Pandoo Nuddee which was on the same day and about a mile away. I was about to upload it when I remembered that you created an image upload template. I can't remember where to find it. Please could you remind me. Thanks.--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 03:07, 30 September 2009 (PDT)
 
== Jheeghun ==
Sorry. I have fixed the coordinates. Jheeghun is described as 17 miles from Chutterpore (Chhatarpur). You probably noticed that by mapping the Nerbudda Fild Force route I finally pinpointed Kurrereah as Kararia. I also managed to correct Bhowragarh location. Small triumphs!--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 02:15, 6 October 2009 (PDT)
 
== Amritsar ==
I liked the photo of the young Sikhs around the Jallianwala Bagh fountain even if it is not "historical". It's a sobering place to visit. As for the licence, you know I'm pretty hazy on this subject. I will go with whatever you think appropriate.<br>
Is the Massacre a bit too one sided to be under Battles? We have the Delhi massacre in that category. We also have the Battle of Trimmoo Ghaut which should be called a massacre as John Nicholson annihilated the 46th BNI. Again there is Cawnpore (Bibigarh) which was no battle but the slaughter of helpless prisoners. Also I am about to write a page for the destruction of the 26th BNI which was wiped out at Ajnala after surrendering. Maybe we should have a Category:Outrages but it is dangerously subjective. A FIBIS policy decision?<br>
I have also made a few pages recently for the outbreak of mutiny at various locations. I have put them under Indian Mutiny obviously but also under Battles and used the Battle Info Box. They can't really go under Mutinies as they would look as though they were separate from the Indian Mutiny. Any suggestions?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:38, 14 October 2009 (PDT)
 
== Campaign Maps ==
I have just found on the Fibiwiki Main Page the link to Fibiwiki Battle Maps. This leads to 44 maps on 9 pages. The inconsistent thing is that they are not battle maps but war or campaign maps. They are also in a random order and as far as I can see you can't search for a title. If you put Sind Campaign into the search bar you get Campaign Court, Chantry Close, Westminster, London W9, UK! They are also in Map format though Terrain format would be preferable. I don't think this is the most helpful link. Have you any influence?--[[User:Symorsebrown|Sy]] 10:38, 15 October 2009 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 01:31, 1 February 2014

Archived Discussions
3/2009 - 9/2009

Please sign any messages with ~~~~ so that I know who I am talking to. Thank you.

Jheeghun

Sorry. I have fixed the coordinates. Jheeghun is described as 17 miles from Chutterpore (Chhatarpur). You probably noticed that by mapping the Nerbudda Fild Force route I finally pinpointed Kurrereah as Kararia. I also managed to correct Bhowragarh location. Small triumphs!--Sy 02:15, 6 October 2009 (PDT)

Amritsar

I liked the photo of the young Sikhs around the Jallianwala Bagh fountain even if it is not "historical". It's a sobering place to visit. As for the licence, you know I'm pretty hazy on this subject. I will go with whatever you think appropriate.
Is the Massacre a bit too one sided to be under Battles? We have the Delhi massacre in that category. We also have the Battle of Trimmoo Ghaut which should be called a massacre as John Nicholson annihilated the 46th BNI. Again there is Cawnpore (Bibigarh) which was no battle but the slaughter of helpless prisoners. Also I am about to write a page for the destruction of the 26th BNI which was wiped out at Ajnala after surrendering. Maybe we should have a Category:Outrages but it is dangerously subjective. A FIBIS policy decision?
I have also made a few pages recently for the outbreak of mutiny at various locations. I have put them under Indian Mutiny obviously but also under Battles and used the Battle Info Box. They can't really go under Mutinies as they would look as though they were separate from the Indian Mutiny. Any suggestions?--Sy 10:38, 14 October 2009 (PDT)

Campaign Maps

I have just found on the Fibiwiki Main Page the link to Fibiwiki Battle Maps. This leads to 44 maps on 9 pages. The inconsistent thing is that they are not battle maps but war or campaign maps. They are also in a random order and as far as I can see you can't search for a title. If you put Sind Campaign into the search bar you get Campaign Court, Chantry Close, Westminster, London W9, UK! They are also in Map format though Terrain format would be preferable. I don't think this is the most helpful link. Have you any influence?--Sy 10:38, 15 October 2009 (PDT)

I think it is great to draw attention to the maps on the Fibiwiki Main Page. I just think the link is confusing. Can we link to a Google Maps window showing all the maps as you can when you are logged in and click My Maps? If not, a link to the Category:Campaigns_with_FIBIS_Battle_Maps with extra explanation would be fine. To me Battle Map or Battlemap indicates a plan showing the disposal of the armed forces on the ground. Campaign maps seems more appropriate or is that just too pedantic?
On our earlier subject of what comes under Battles, would it be helpful if the title were 'Battles and Actions' as was the original table?--Sy 04:21, 16 October 2009 (PDT)

Photographs

I need a clarification for a photograph. Can I put up copyright photograph if I ask the photographer for permission (via email) for it to be uploaded to this site. It would still retain it copyright status. It would be for photographs for which free images are difficult to get. Also it can be removed once a free image is found. Thanks. Rzafar 07:51, 7 November 2009 (PST)

User Talk

When I left a message on Sy's User Talk I noticed the Date and Time generated were not correct. Maureene 22:23, 13 December 2009 (PST)

Veterinary Surgeon

Hi Sarah. Re Veterinary Surgeons/IMS . At least up until 1860 they were part of the IMS, being listed above Warrant Officer Apothecaries. http://books.google.com/books?id=O94NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR9 1838 Bengal Directory; http://books.google.com/books?id=ahe1AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PR17 Madras October 1860Maureene 14:23, 16 December 2009 (PST)

Non-British Ancestors

Hi Sarah re http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Category:Non-British_Ancestors. The information on this page, being a category, does not show up in a search.Is it possible to put the information into an article? Regards Maureene 04:44, 20 December 2009 (PST)

Indian Civil Service

Hi Sarah I was just looking at a link which Lee added and I think I managed to delete it.I don't know how this happened as I didn't physically delete.I haven't touched it again. Regards Maureene 02:41, 29 December 2009 (PST) Lee has now fixed this up Regards Maureene 18:26, 29 December 2009 (PST)

Scholars or antiquarians‎

Sorry Sarah I was copying an old link to see if I could find an archived version and somehow I managed to reinstate it. Obviously I am doing something incorrect when I look at past versions.See previous post also. Maureene 20:41, 3 January 2010 (PST)

Biographies

Glad you approve. I was going to ask you: Is it worthwhile putting all the biographies on the War page in addition to the specific ones on the Battles pages? I thought a list in the War article would be helpful.

There is a wealth of information in the archive books that Maureen has found and which I am beginning to explore. Finding them on the archive site is not very easy. I found Volumes 1 and 2 of the Duke of Wellington's despatches but not a later one covering the 4th Mysore War. I can't decide whether this is because it was not published (wouldn't they have covered his whole period?) or that it has not been digitized (woudn't they have done all of them?).--Sy 05:08, 6 January 2010 (PST)

Thanks for finding Vol III--Sy 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Redirect

Maureen has recently added 3rd Light Dragoons with an on-line book she has found. 3rd Light Dragoons was an earlier name of 17th Dragoons so I transferred the information there. I tried to put a redirect on 3rd Light Dragoons but it doesn't work. Clearly I have lost my marbles again. What have I done wrong?--Sy 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Hi Sarah and Sy. The online book in question was written in 1846 and the Regiment was then called the 3rd Light Dragoons. I think this is a different regiment to the 17th Dragoons, which was called 3rd Light Dragoons at a much earlier date. RegardsMaureene 02:02, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

I am trying to get to grips with the chronology of the various Bengal Infantry Regiments before the Mutiny. The archive.org volume here has been very useful if a bit muddly but it only goes up to the reorganisation of 1796. I attach the spreadsheet I have made to try to analyse the changes. It contains a number of unresolved contradictions and is not helped by the relatively few details in the regiments.org website here. Our list, in common with others, uses the titles as at the reorganisation of 1824 and I think these remained unchanged until 1857. I have not been able to find any details of the 1824 changes. With your superior internet powers, have you any suggestion where I can look further?--Sy 03:03, 11 January 2010 (PST)

Great template. I will of course add it from now on. As you can see I have made some progress revising the BNI pages. I have a feeling I have done the easy bit as I have got to regiments which were formed after the 1796 and before the 1824 reorganisation. I am not sure yet how we track them. For instance the 14th BNI started in 1765 but its number changed to 19th in 1775. The 24th BNI became 14th in 1775 but mutinied and was disbanded in 1795. The 20th became the 14th in 1795 but changed to 2nd Btn 10th in 1796. A new 14th was formed in 1824 from 1st Btn 10th and it is the 1824 numbers that we are using in our list. Perhaps we should have a table with the regiment numbers listed vertically and cells along the row to link to the pedigree of the regiment in 1764, 1775, 1781, 1796 etc. Any thoughts?--Sy 00:47, 16 January 2010 (PST)

Society Reading List

Hi Sarah Could you change the link mentioned for George Atkinson, author of Curry and Rice,as the existing one no longer works. It is the second link, not the one to the actual book Curry and Rice. http://www.archive.org/stream/balladsofburmaan00oolarich#page/4/mode/2up Regards Maureene 02:13, 16 January 2010 (PST)

100th Regiment of Foot/92nd Regiment of Foot

Hi Sarah. I have just added a link here. All the time the Regiment was in India it was known as the 92nd Foot, I think that is the more meaningful heading, not the 100th Foot. Regards Maureene 03:24, 17 January 2010 (PST)

Gordon Highlanders

Looking at the pages I think the current page should be renamed 92nd Regt and a new page made for 100th. 75th and 92nd joined in 1881 to become 1st and 2nd Btn Gordon Highlanders. There were several 100th Regts see Wikipedia. Our new 100th page could sweep up the various strands. The one that fought in India was this one.

I am struggling with a head full of Bengal Infantry at the moment. If you agree with the above we could change the title and put a note on the 100th page "coming soon". I will put it on my list.--Sy 07:56, 18 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

Sarah, I have had a shot at a table to access the various regiments at different times. Would you mind having a look at Bengal Infantry Table. The idea is to list the regiments in chronological order for each of the critical dates and link the regiment number to the relevant regiment page. I have put in a few as an example. I now realise that this wont cover all the variables. For instance 19th Battalion was raised in 1764 but was broken up in 1781. This doesn't feature so far on our regiment pages which only covers the replacement 19th which is shown on our page for 17th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry. Any suggestions as to how we can address this?--Sy 11:09, 18 January 2010 (PST)

Military online autobiographies

Hi Sarah and Sy: Can you suggest a page for military autobiographies where they seem to have changed regiments a lot, so you can’t put them on the Regiments page, I can't work what war or battle to place them in, but the book seems to contain content of interest. Would a section on the bottom of Chronological list of Wars and Campaigns be satisfactory?
Eg


I suggest these general biographies could be put on the war pages as well as any special Military Biography page.--Sy 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Hi Sarah and Sy: i found out more about Major David Price and was able to place him, I hope correctly. James Welsh was in the Poligar War. Realised to day these are the Polygar Wars.However what is there for the 1st and 2nd Polygar War is a Category, not an article and does not come up in searching. Could you copy the information onto an artice, and I will add an external link. Thanks Maureene Hi Sarah Thanks for altering this. Maureene 18:09, 21 January 2010 (PST)

More on Bengal Infantry

I have a suggestion for the problem I raised above. Please have a look at 19th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry and tell me what you think. Maybe the box size/colour could be adjusted.--Sy 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal regiments again

Sounds fine to me. I didn't like the appearance of the boxed panel anyway

I have just expanded the table to four panels of 20 regiments with links filled in for the 74 regiment which existed in 1824. This gives an idea of the whole page. Comments?--Sy 07:41, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry Table

Well I am off for a month tomorrow morning and must draw a line under this. You will see that I have entered the first 30 odd regiments on the Bengal Infantry Table. I have created some of the early units as Battalions but there are still gaps and the whole thing needs a thorough going over as I am sure there are contradictions. If we could find another list of regiments as a cross check it would help. I don't think we are ready for this page to go live yet so I haven't added a category link. Talk to you again at the end of February. Regards --Sy 09:53, 21 January 2010 (PST)

Hyderabad Contingent

Hi Sarah, I made an article for this, hope this was the right thing to do. Regards Maureene 18:33, 21 January 2010 (PST)

Singapore

Hi Sarah I haven't read every link of the medical history articles I have added, but most of the ones I did read had the names of people scattered throughout and some had quite a lot of names. Even the others I thought added a sense of the social conditions at the time which could be of interest to those who had ancestors living at the time. I still have some other links to add but will not do so if you think they are not relevant. Regards Maureene 17:05, 8 February 2010 (PST)

Citation and Doctor

Hi Sarah I have not been successful doing a citation and half the article Doctor now doesn't appear. Initially I put Notes at the end of Bengal Individuals and then at the end of the article.Also I didn't know whether just to put==before Notes, or whether more were needed, as it was in a section that already had===. However, overriding all this I must have done something incorrect as now nothing in the article appears after the citation. Sorry Maureene 20:35, 10 February 2010 (PST)

Calcutta cemeteries

No time to finish off. Will do some more tomorrow night. Regards Maureene 04:52, 14 February 2010 (PST)

Thanks Sarah for the link you gave. I didn't realise the Archive catalogue was on the BACSA site. The way I did the links seemed clearest to me, but you may feel they should be done differently. Regards Maureene 02:37, 15 February 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

I would be happy with Bengal Infantry Finder. The highlighting helps legibility. I did think that the later tables which are not so wide could go side by side but that is beyond my powers. I have noticed some duplication in our Bengal Army pages:

We have Category:Bengal Infantry Regiments which lists all the Bengal infantry regiments and we have Bengal Army Regiments which also lists them (I prefer the layout of the latter where 1st precedes 10th) plus a whole lot of local contingents most of which are post Mutiny and don't yet have articles plus regiments of the Punjab Irregular Force which are duplicated under Category:Punjab Frontier Force Infantry. Then we have a list of Punjab Infantry regiments in red but these in fact have articles with a different title under Category:Indian Army Infantry Regiments - see 22nd Punjab Infantry/22nd Regiment of Punjab Infantry.

We seem to be getting in a muddle by on the one hand dividing the regiment list before and after the Mutiny and on the other trying to list all the Bengal Regiments up to the amalgamation of the Presidencies in 1895. The same applies to the cavalry regiments.

I think we should stick to the Mutiny as the division point. What do you feel? In any case we need to add redirection to those in red which actually have articles.

Regards--Sy 09:57, 25 February 2010 (PST)

Columns

When I open the page the columnation has chopped up the last table so the column headings are separated. I think without columns is the lesser of two poor layouts. Thanks for sorting the position of the reference. What was the reason for it ?--Sy 01:38, 2 March 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry again again

Well, thanks to your BL information I was able to sort out my spreadsheet and with a bit of guesswork eliminated all the anomalies. From this I have recast the Bengal Infantry Finder looking at every one of the 550 cells again. I am sure there are a few errors and I really should have one more trawl through but I was losing the will to live. I would like to have your comments now and a note of any mistakes you find by the odd spot check. I will then finish it off.

Since you also sent me some stuff on the other presidencies I thought I would have a go at Madras Regiments. I remember I tried to sort them out last year with middling success.--Sy 09:21, 14 March 2010 (PDT)

Thanks for the feedback. I have corrected the two blunders. 1795 was the year that Capt Williams used as a base year and where I got a lot of my information from. In 1796 the 36 battalions were condensed into 12 regiments of two battalions each. Pargana was the Hindustani word for a tax area. There is an external link on each of the Purgunnah Battalion pages: Purgunnah Battalions --Sy 08:54, 15 March 2010 (PDT)

Apothecary

Hi Sarah. I agree the article is getting long, so it would be best to split of the Individuals as you suggest Maureene 17:35, 19 March 2010 (PDT)

Macao Expedition

I have seen no other Macao Expedition so have removed the date from the title and have added it to the chronological list. I have categorized it as Wars and Campaigns (though it might equally be under Minor Campaigns) and Napoleonic War. I hope you agree. I have also changed the spelling to the old spelling to link it to the Location page. Also a few internal links and other stuff which perhaps you could vet. I don't know Nick Adams - I hope he wont be upset but this surgery.--Sy 08:18, 25 March 2010 (PDT)

Forums/Message boards/ELs

Hi Sarah. Thanks for the reasoning. Regards Maureene 22:38, 8 April 2010 (PDT)

District Info box

hi, I think we can use the old one with a slight alteration - add the headquarter info to it and remove the altitude (as it varies). Coordinates would help with location. About the image: it should remain - does not necessarily have to be for a map - could be any interesting image of the province. just my thoughts. regards Rzafar 03:19, 16 April 2010 (PDT)

Digital Library of India

Maureen has just put a link on the Indian Mutiny page to the Digital Library of India. I can't seem to make it connect to anything coherent. Is it me? The same link is on 13th BNI page. BTW I have found the archive.org History of the Indian Mutiny which I have added.--Sy 09:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

User status

One of the ways I tried to fix the cite problem meant that sysops would lose editing rights, unless they were a member of another group that had editing rights, so I added you to the bot group too. I'm not using that way now, so I can remove you if you prefer.

BTW - I also changed the CSS so that cite references are slightly smaller and highlighted blue when clicked whilst I was playing with it. I think it makes it easier to see which ref you are being referred to, but if you prefer the old way I can change it back. --FIBIS Webmaster 14:57, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Civil Service reading list

Additional wording suggested: After "Check the FIBIS Online Bookshop for availability of recommended titles and more information" add: under the heading Indian Civil Service.

Also add New York Times Review Regards Maureene 05:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Naval matters

Thanks Sarah. I was unaware of this section. I have two articles: Shannon's Naval Brigade and Pearl's Naval Brigade. I have made categories for each. Do you think these categories should be removed and the articles put under Category:Naval and Maritime? or maybe Category:Navy?. I would like your advice. Thanks.--Sy 07:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

19th Light Dragoons

You are quite right Sarah. I was drunk with power and didn't check the links. In principle I think we should use the contemporary regiment titles when listing the forces of a particular campaign. That means we either need an article for that title with a redirect or we put in a portmanteau link. I don't think it realistic to create articles and redirects for all the former titles so inevitably we have many many portmanteau internal links. It will never be black and white however so I am happy for you to reinstate 19th Light Dragoons. I don't think I am able to do it.--Sy 08:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Internal/external links

Has Hugh discussed this issue with you? Have a look at my post on his page.--Sy 08:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Historic Guns

I have just had a look at this article and think you have done a great job sorting out the pictures. It is editing far beyond my capabilities. Am I right that there are still a few Sutlej guns to be formatted? Let me know when you reckon you have finished so we can ask Elizabeth Hancox for her comments.

The guns page led me to do a couple of new articles under Ordnance. Any comments on Infantry Weapons and Mountain Guns would be appreciated.

Thanks. --Sy 13:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Map template

I have just made a Google Map of the 17thC HEIC Factories locations. Realising that the Battle Map template is not appropriate, I have tried to make a new Map template. Have a look at the East India Company page. It is rather crude and, if we use the map image I have chosen, the text would be better below the image. If you have time to refine it, I would be grateful.--Sy 17:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Green Template link to FIBIS Google Books Library

Hi Sarah. I have noticed the link is broken for some of the links from the green template to the FIBIS Google Books Library,, eg for the template on Indian Mutiny, Burma, Life in India#Passage to India. I tried to replace these links , based on one which is still working which is located on the page British India. On my first, and only attempt, on the page Indian Mutiny I was partially successful, in that the link goes to the Google Books Library, but it doesn't go to the category Indian Mutiny. Regards Maureene 21:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC) Hi Sarah currently I have a working link, although for how long I don't know. Regards Maureene 04:41, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Reginald Malpas Gore

Hello Sarah
I have now received from David Gore better res images of his father's photos. I have put them on the page but as usual my limited skills have been unable to arrange them neatly without encroaching on the paragraph below. Could you please work your magic on them? They are all thumbnails as this seems the only format which includes the title. Regards--Sy 12:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Just to let you know I have fixed the images by adding a gallery. --FIBIS Webmaster 17:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

People by occupation

Thanks for your message Sarah. You are the wiki expert so I'll go along with however you feel it should be organised. When I started the Military Commanders biographies I found a lot of single people under Ocupations so I relocated them to People. I have also created a Category for Military Commanders with British, French, Indian and Other subcategories. If you feel this needs re-casting, please let me know. The sticking point for me was putting East India Company under Category:People by Occupation when it is manifestly neither a person or an occupation. Thanks for your help.--Sy 07:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Josshouse Hill

Someone has inserted irrelevant text on this page and the Talk page. I have undone it. You might have a look at the History to check I have done the right thing.--Sy 07:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Journal cover pic

Noted, although it has been on the page FIBIS Journal since November 2009, and was uoloaded by another. Would it be possible to upload some, or all of the FIBIS Journal covers, which are cuurently used for the Journals in the FIBIS shop and I could add them to the page FIBIS Journal. Regards Maureene 12:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Images

Hi Sarah
Belated thanks for organising all the images in the Elizabeth Guns article. Sorry I didn't enter them correctly first time. Having been out of circulation for a while I missed the notifications. Regards --Sy 12:10, 31 October 2011 (PDT)

Indian Subordinate Medical Service

Hi Sarah, the ISM Service is different to the ISM Department, according to this Google Books link http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PShpbwti_3EC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=Indian+Subordinate+Medical+Service&source=bl&ots=RpsqnAStyB&sig=POStCCl2jHkwfNhmvvUIUPih-9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cBXoUpiKOIq4iQeyvYHQDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Indian%20Subordinate%20Medical%20Service&f=false - RegardsMaureene (talk)

Apothecary

Hi Sarah, I must say I don’t agree with the quick definition of Apothecary which has been added.

“Initially, under the East India Company, this was a junior medical orderly.”

I don’t think it could be said that an Apothecary was ever a junior medical orderly, at least not in Australian terms, where an orderly does nothing to do with matters of treatment at all. Maybe when they first started their training as boys this terminology might apply, but not trained Apothecaries. In 1812 boys were to be trained as “Compounders and Dressers, and ultimately as Apothecaries and Sub Assistant Surgeons”

If you read down the Apothecary page it says “Medical College training for Hospital Apprentices was introduced in 1847 in Bengal following the system that had previously been successfully introduced in Madras. "General Order 200" dated 15 June 1847 is about Apprenticeships in the Bengal Subordinate Medical Department. It sets out that candidates would sit an examination to become an apprentice. Those successful would serve for two years as an apprentice in the Hospital of a European Regiment or General Hospital. They then may be selected by the Medical Board for a studentship in the Medical College. They would then attend a two year course of study comprising Anatomy, Dissection, Materia Medica, Pharmaceutical Chemistry, the practice of Medicine and Surgery and more especially clinical instruction in connection with the last two branches. At the end of the two years they were to undergo an examination. If successful they were to be drafted to European Regiments or to the General Hospital, there to wait their turn for promotion as Assistant Apothecaries or Assistant Stewards. Promotion to Apothecary was also to be by examination.

Even comparing an Apothecary to a senior nurse is not correct, at least for the Australian situation, because no nurses would have studied, or would perform surgery. I think a lower ranked doctor would be more accurate terminology, or possibly a senior nurse who performed surgery.

By the time the Indian Army was established in 1895, the term Assistant Surgeon was the term then used, and I believe by training they were regarded as fully qualified medical men.
Regards Maureene (talk)
Sarah, now changed, per your comment on my User page Maureene (talk) 1 February 2014

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