User talk:Sarahb

Archived Discussions

3/2009 - 9/2009

Please sign any messages with ~~~~ so that I know who I am talking to. Thank you.

Jheeghun

Sorry. I have fixed the coordinates. Jheeghun is described as 17 miles from Chutterpore (Chhatarpur). You probably noticed that by mapping the Nerbudda Fild Force route I finally pinpointed Kurrereah as Kararia. I also managed to correct Bhowragarh location. Small triumphs!--Sy 02:15, 6 October 2009 (PDT)

Amritsar

I liked the photo of the young Sikhs around the Jallianwala Bagh fountain even if it is not "historical". It's a sobering place to visit. As for the licence, you know I'm pretty hazy on this subject. I will go with whatever you think appropriate.
Is the Massacre a bit too one sided to be under Battles? We have the Delhi massacre in that category. We also have the Battle of Trimmoo Ghaut which should be called a massacre as John Nicholson annihilated the 46th BNI. Again there is Cawnpore (Bibigarh) which was no battle but the slaughter of helpless prisoners. Also I am about to write a page for the destruction of the 26th BNI which was wiped out at Ajnala after surrendering. Maybe we should have a Category:Outrages but it is dangerously subjective. A FIBIS policy decision?
I have also made a few pages recently for the outbreak of mutiny at various locations. I have put them under Indian Mutiny obviously but also under Battles and used the Battle Info Box. They can't really go under Mutinies as they would look as though they were separate from the Indian Mutiny. Any suggestions?--Sy 10:38, 14 October 2009 (PDT)

Campaign Maps

I have just found on the Fibiwiki Main Page the link to Fibiwiki Battle Maps. This leads to 44 maps on 9 pages. The inconsistent thing is that they are not battle maps but war or campaign maps. They are also in a random order and as far as I can see you can't search for a title. If you put Sind Campaign into the search bar you get Campaign Court, Chantry Close, Westminster, London W9, UK! They are also in Map format though Terrain format would be preferable. I don't think this is the most helpful link. Have you any influence?--Sy 10:38, 15 October 2009 (PDT)

I think it is great to draw attention to the maps on the Fibiwiki Main Page. I just think the link is confusing. Can we link to a Google Maps window showing all the maps as you can when you are logged in and click My Maps? If not, a link to the Category:Campaigns_with_FIBIS_Battle_Maps with extra explanation would be fine. To me Battle Map or Battlemap indicates a plan showing the disposal of the armed forces on the ground. Campaign maps seems more appropriate or is that just too pedantic?

On our earlier subject of what comes under Battles, would it be helpful if the title were 'Battles and Actions' as was the original table?--Sy 04:21, 16 October 2009 (PDT)

Photographs

I need a clarification for a photograph. Can I put up copyright photograph if I ask the photographer for permission (via email) for it to be uploaded to this site. It would still retain it copyright status. It would be for photographs for which free images are difficult to get. Also it can be removed once a free image is found. Thanks. Rzafar 07:51, 7 November 2009 (PST)

User Talk

When I left a message on Sy's User Talk I noticed the Date and Time generated were not correct. Maureene 22:23, 13 December 2009 (PST)

Veterinary Surgeon

Hi Sarah. Re Veterinary Surgeons/IMS . At least up until 1860 they were part of the IMS, being listed above Warrant Officer Apothecaries. http://books.google.com/books?id=O94NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR9 1838 Bengal Directory; http://books.google.com/books?id=ahe1AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PR17 Madras October 1860Maureene 14:23, 16 December 2009 (PST)

Non-British Ancestors

Hi Sarah re http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Category:Non-British_Ancestors. The information on this page, being a category, does not show up in a search.Is it possible to put the information into an article? Regards Maureene 04:44, 20 December 2009 (PST)

Indian Civil Service

Hi Sarah I was just looking at a link which Lee added and I think I managed to delete it.I don't know how this happened as I didn't physically delete.I haven't touched it again. Regards Maureene 02:41, 29 December 2009 (PST) Lee has now fixed this up Regards Maureene 18:26, 29 December 2009 (PST)

Scholars or antiquarians‎

Sorry Sarah I was copying an old link to see if I could find an archived version and somehow I managed to reinstate it. Obviously I am doing something incorrect when I look at past versions.See previous post also. Maureene 20:41, 3 January 2010 (PST)

Biographies

Glad you approve. I was going to ask you: Is it worthwhile putting all the biographies on the War page in addition to the specific ones on the Battles pages? I thought a list in the War article would be helpful.

There is a wealth of information in the archive books that Maureen has found and which I am beginning to explore. Finding them on the archive site is not very easy. I found Volumes 1 and 2 of the Duke of Wellington's despatches but not a later one covering the 4th Mysore War. I can't decide whether this is because it was not published (wouldn't they have covered his whole period?) or that it has not been digitized (woudn't they have done all of them?).--Sy 05:08, 6 January 2010 (PST)

Thanks for finding Vol III--Sy 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Redirect

Maureen has recently added 3rd Light Dragoons with an on-line book she has found. 3rd Light Dragoons was an earlier name of 17th Dragoons so I transferred the information there. I tried to put a redirect on 3rd Light Dragoons but it doesn't work. Clearly I have lost my marbles again. What have I done wrong?--Sy 01:26, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Hi Sarah and Sy. The online book in question was written in 1846 and the Regiment was then called the 3rd Light Dragoons. I think this is a different regiment to the 17th Dragoons, which was called 3rd Light Dragoons at a much earlier date. RegardsMaureene 02:02, 7 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

I am trying to get to grips with the chronology of the various Bengal Infantry Regiments before the Mutiny. The archive.org volume here has been very useful if a bit muddly but it only goes up to the reorganisation of 1796. I attach the spreadsheet I have made to try to analyse the changes. It contains a number of unresolved contradictions and is not helped by the relatively few details in the regiments.org website here. Our list, in common with others, uses the titles as at the reorganisation of 1824 and I think these remained unchanged until 1857. I have not been able to find any details of the 1824 changes. With your superior internet powers, have you any suggestion where I can look further?--Sy 03:03, 11 January 2010 (PST)

Great template. I will of course add it from now on. As you can see I have made some progress revising the BNI pages. I have a feeling I have done the easy bit as I have got to regiments which were formed after the 1796 and before the 1824 reorganisation. I am not sure yet how we track them. For instance the 14th BNI started in 1765 but its number changed to 19th in 1775. The 24th BNI became 14th in 1775 but mutinied and was disbanded in 1795. The 20th became the 14th in 1795 but changed to 2nd Btn 10th in 1796. A new 14th was formed in 1824 from 1st Btn 10th and it is the 1824 numbers that we are using in our list. Perhaps we should have a table with the regiment numbers listed vertically and cells along the row to link to the pedigree of the regiment in 1764, 1775, 1781, 1796 etc. Any thoughts?--Sy 00:47, 16 January 2010 (PST)

Society Reading List

Hi Sarah Could you change the link mentioned for George Atkinson, author of Curry and Rice,as the existing one no longer works. It is the second link, not the one to the actual book Curry and Rice. http://www.archive.org/stream/balladsofburmaan00oolarich#page/4/mode/2up Regards Maureene 02:13, 16 January 2010 (PST)

100th Regiment of Foot/92nd Regiment of Foot

Hi Sarah. I have just added a link here. All the time the Regiment was in India it was known as the 92nd Foot, I think that is the more meaningful heading, not the 100th Foot. Regards Maureene 03:24, 17 January 2010 (PST)

Gordon Highlanders

Looking at the pages I think the current page should be renamed 92nd Regt and a new page made for 100th. 75th and 92nd joined in 1881 to become 1st and 2nd Btn Gordon Highlanders. There were several 100th Regts see Wikipedia. Our new 100th page could sweep up the various strands. The one that fought in India was this one.

I am struggling with a head full of Bengal Infantry at the moment. If you agree with the above we could change the title and put a note on the 100th page "coming soon". I will put it on my list.--Sy 07:56, 18 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

Sarah, I have had a shot at a table to access the various regiments at different times. Would you mind having a look at Bengal Infantry Table. The idea is to list the regiments in chronological order for each of the critical dates and link the regiment number to the relevant regiment page. I have put in a few as an example. I now realise that this wont cover all the variables. For instance 19th Battalion was raised in 1764 but was broken up in 1781. This doesn't feature so far on our regiment pages which only covers the replacement 19th which is shown on our page for 17th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry. Any suggestions as to how we can address this?--Sy 11:09, 18 January 2010 (PST)

Military online autobiographies

Hi Sarah and Sy: Can you suggest a page for military autobiographies where they seem to have changed regiments a lot, so you can’t put them on the Regiments page, I can't work what war or battle to place them in, but the book seems to contain content of interest. Would a section on the bottom of Chronological list of Wars and Campaigns be satisfactory?
Eg

• Memoirs of the early life and service of a field officer on the retired list of the Indian armyby Major David Price 1839 Google Books (service from 1780)
• Military reminiscences: extracted from a journal of nearly forty years' active service in the East Indies Volume 1 by James Welsh of the Madras Establishment 1830 Volume 2 (Service from 1790)
• Forty One Years in India: From subaltern to commander-in-chief Volume 1 by Field Marshal Lord Roberts of Kandahar 1897 Chapter 6 onwards. Archive.org (I did put this one under Indian Mutiny) Volume 2 1898 Regards Maureene 22:44, 18 January 2010 (PST)

I suggest these general biographies could be put on the war pages as well as any special Military Biography page.--Sy 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Hi Sarah and Sy: i found out more about Major David Price and was able to place him, I hope correctly. James Welsh was in the Poligar War. Realised to day these are the Polygar Wars.However what is there for the 1st and 2nd Polygar War is a Category, not an article and does not come up in searching. Could you copy the information onto an artice, and I will add an external link. Thanks Maureene Hi Sarah Thanks for altering this. Maureene 18:09, 21 January 2010 (PST)

More on Bengal Infantry

I have a suggestion for the problem I raised above. Please have a look at 19th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry and tell me what you think. Maybe the box size/colour could be adjusted.--Sy 04:58, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal regiments again

Sounds fine to me. I didn't like the appearance of the boxed panel anyway

I have just expanded the table to four panels of 20 regiments with links filled in for the 74 regiment which existed in 1824. This gives an idea of the whole page. Comments?--Sy 07:41, 19 January 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry Table

Well I am off for a month tomorrow morning and must draw a line under this. You will see that I have entered the first 30 odd regiments on the Bengal Infantry Table. I have created some of the early units as Battalions but there are still gaps and the whole thing needs a thorough going over as I am sure there are contradictions. If we could find another list of regiments as a cross check it would help. I don't think we are ready for this page to go live yet so I haven't added a category link. Talk to you again at the end of February. Regards --Sy 09:53, 21 January 2010 (PST)

Hyderabad Contingent

Hi Sarah, I made an article for this, hope this was the right thing to do. Regards Maureene 18:33, 21 January 2010 (PST)

Singapore

Hi Sarah I haven't read every link of the medical history articles I have added, but most of the ones I did read had the names of people scattered throughout and some had quite a lot of names. Even the others I thought added a sense of the social conditions at the time which could be of interest to those who had ancestors living at the time. I still have some other links to add but will not do so if you think they are not relevant. Regards Maureene 17:05, 8 February 2010 (PST)

Citation and Doctor

Hi Sarah I have not been successful doing a citation and half the article Doctor now doesn't appear. Initially I put Notes at the end of Bengal Individuals and then at the end of the article.Also I didn't know whether just to put==before Notes, or whether more were needed, as it was in a section that already had===. However, overriding all this I must have done something incorrect as now nothing in the article appears after the citation. Sorry Maureene 20:35, 10 February 2010 (PST)

Calcutta cemeteries

No time to finish off. Will do some more tomorrow night. Regards Maureene 04:52, 14 February 2010 (PST)

Thanks Sarah for the link you gave. I didn't realise the Archive catalogue was on the BACSA site. The way I did the links seemed clearest to me, but you may feel they should be done differently. Regards Maureene 02:37, 15 February 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry

I would be happy with Bengal Infantry Finder. The highlighting helps legibility. I did think that the later tables which are not so wide could go side by side but that is beyond my powers. I have noticed some duplication in our Bengal Army pages:

We have Category:Bengal Infantry Regiments which lists all the Bengal infantry regiments and we have Bengal Army Regiments which also lists them (I prefer the layout of the latter where 1st precedes 10th) plus a whole lot of local contingents most of which are post Mutiny and don't yet have articles plus regiments of the Punjab Irregular Force which are duplicated under Category:Punjab Frontier Force Infantry. Then we have a list of Punjab Infantry regiments in red but these in fact have articles with a different title under Category:Indian Army Infantry Regiments - see 22nd Punjab Infantry/22nd Regiment of Punjab Infantry.

We seem to be getting in a muddle by on the one hand dividing the regiment list before and after the Mutiny and on the other trying to list all the Bengal Regiments up to the amalgamation of the Presidencies in 1895. The same applies to the cavalry regiments.

I think we should stick to the Mutiny as the division point. What do you feel? In any case we need to add redirection to those in red which actually have articles.

Regards--Sy 09:57, 25 February 2010 (PST)

Columns

When I open the page the columnation has chopped up the last table so the column headings are separated. I think without columns is the lesser of two poor layouts. Thanks for sorting the position of the reference. What was the reason for it ?--Sy 01:38, 2 March 2010 (PST)

Bengal Infantry again again

Well, thanks to your BL information I was able to sort out my spreadsheet and with a bit of guesswork eliminated all the anomalies. From this I have recast the Bengal Infantry Finder looking at every one of the 550 cells again. I am sure there are a few errors and I really should have one more trawl through but I was losing the will to live. I would like to have your comments now and a note of any mistakes you find by the odd spot check. I will then finish it off.

Since you also sent me some stuff on the other presidencies I thought I would have a go at Madras Regiments. I remember I tried to sort them out last year with middling success.--Sy 09:21, 14 March 2010 (PDT)

Thanks for the feedback. I have corrected the two blunders. 1795 was the year that Capt Williams used as a base year and where I got a lot of my information from. In 1796 the 36 battalions were condensed into 12 regiments of two battalions each. Pargana was the Hindustani word for a tax area. There is an external link on each of the Purgunnah Battalion pages: Purgunnah Battalions --Sy 08:54, 15 March 2010 (PDT)

Apothecary

Hi Sarah. I agree the article is getting long, so it would be best to split of the Individuals as you suggest Maureene 17:35, 19 March 2010 (PDT)

Macao Expedition

I have seen no other Macao Expedition so have removed the date from the title and have added it to the chronological list. I have categorized it as Wars and Campaigns (though it might equally be under Minor Campaigns) and Napoleonic War. I hope you agree. I have also changed the spelling to the old spelling to link it to the Location page. Also a few internal links and other stuff which perhaps you could vet. I don't know Nick Adams - I hope he wont be upset but this surgery.--Sy 08:18, 25 March 2010 (PDT)

Forums/Message boards/ELs

Hi Sarah. Thanks for the reasoning. Regards Maureene 22:38, 8 April 2010 (PDT)

District Info box

hi, I think we can use the old one with a slight alteration - add the headquarter info to it and remove the altitude (as it varies). Coordinates would help with location. About the image: it should remain - does not necessarily have to be for a map - could be any interesting image of the province. just my thoughts. regards Rzafar 03:19, 16 April 2010 (PDT)

Digital Library of India

Maureen has just put a link on the Indian Mutiny page to the Digital Library of India. I can't seem to make it connect to anything coherent. Is it me? The same link is on 13th BNI page. BTW I have found the archive.org History of the Indian Mutiny which I have added.--Sy 09:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

User status

One of the ways I tried to fix the cite problem meant that sysops would lose editing rights, unless they were a member of another group that had editing rights, so I added you to the bot group too. I'm not using that way now, so I can remove you if you prefer.

BTW - I also changed the CSS so that cite references are slightly smaller and highlighted blue when clicked whilst I was playing with it. I think it makes it easier to see which ref you are being referred to, but if you prefer the old way I can change it back. --FIBIS Webmaster 14:57, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Civil Service reading list

Additional wording suggested: After "Check the FIBIS Online Bookshop for availability of recommended titles and more information" add: under the heading Indian Civil Service.

Also add New York Times Review Regards Maureene 05:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Naval matters

Thanks Sarah. I was unaware of this section. I have two articles: Shannon's Naval Brigade and Pearl's Naval Brigade. I have made categories for each. Do you think these categories should be removed and the articles put under Category:Naval and Maritime? or maybe Category:Navy?. I would like your advice. Thanks.--Sy 07:30, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

19th Light Dragoons

You are quite right Sarah. I was drunk with power and didn't check the links. In principle I think we should use the contemporary regiment titles when listing the forces of a particular campaign. That means we either need an article for that title with a redirect or we put in a portmanteau link. I don't think it realistic to create articles and redirects for all the former titles so inevitably we have many many portmanteau internal links. It will never be black and white however so I am happy for you to reinstate 19th Light Dragoons. I don't think I am able to do it.--Sy 08:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Internal/external links

Has Hugh discussed this issue with you? Have a look at my post on his page.--Sy 08:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Historic Guns

I have just had a look at this article and think you have done a great job sorting out the pictures. It is editing far beyond my capabilities. Am I right that there are still a few Sutlej guns to be formatted? Let me know when you reckon you have finished so we can ask Elizabeth Hancox for her comments.

The guns page led me to do a couple of new articles under Ordnance. Any comments on Infantry Weapons and Mountain Guns would be appreciated.

Thanks. --Sy 13:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Map template

I have just made a Google Map of the 17thC HEIC Factories locations. Realising that the Battle Map template is not appropriate, I have tried to make a new Map template. Have a look at the East India Company page. It is rather crude and, if we use the map image I have chosen, the text would be better below the image. If you have time to refine it, I would be grateful.--Sy 17:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Green Template link to FIBIS Google Books Library

Hi Sarah. I have noticed the link is broken for some of the links from the green template to the FIBIS Google Books Library,, eg for the template on Indian Mutiny, Burma, Life in India#Passage to India. I tried to replace these links , based on one which is still working which is located on the page British India. On my first, and only attempt, on the page Indian Mutiny I was partially successful, in that the link goes to the Google Books Library, but it doesn't go to the category Indian Mutiny. Regards Maureene 21:03, 17 November 2010 (UTC) Hi Sarah currently I have a working link, although for how long I don't know. Regards Maureene 04:41, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Reginald Malpas Gore

Hello Sarah
I have now received from David Gore better res images of his father's photos. I have put them on the page but as usual my limited skills have been unable to arrange them neatly without encroaching on the paragraph below. Could you please work your magic on them? They are all thumbnails as this seems the only format which includes the title. Regards--Sy 12:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Just to let you know I have fixed the images by adding a gallery. --FIBIS Webmaster 17:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

People by occupation

Thanks for your message Sarah. You are the wiki expert so I'll go along with however you feel it should be organised. When I started the Military Commanders biographies I found a lot of single people under Ocupations so I relocated them to People. I have also created a Category for Military Commanders with British, French, Indian and Other subcategories. If you feel this needs re-casting, please let me know. The sticking point for me was putting East India Company under Category:People by Occupation when it is manifestly neither a person or an occupation. Thanks for your help.--Sy 07:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Josshouse Hill

Someone has inserted irrelevant text on this page and the Talk page. I have undone it. You might have a look at the History to check I have done the right thing.--Sy 07:01, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Journal cover pic

Noted, although it has been on the page FIBIS Journal since November 2009, and was uoloaded by another. Would it be possible to upload some, or all of the FIBIS Journal covers, which are cuurently used for the Journals in the FIBIS shop and I could add them to the page FIBIS Journal. Regards Maureene 12:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Images

Hi Sarah
Belated thanks for organising all the images in the Elizabeth Guns article. Sorry I didn't enter them correctly first time. Having been out of circulation for a while I missed the notifications. Regards --Sy 12:10, 31 October 2011 (PDT)

Indian Subordinate Medical Service

Hi Sarah, the ISM Service is different to the ISM Department, according to this Google Books link http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PShpbwti_3EC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=Indian+Subordinate+Medical+Service&source=bl&ots=RpsqnAStyB&sig=POStCCl2jHkwfNhmvvUIUPih-9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cBXoUpiKOIq4iQeyvYHQDA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Indian%20Subordinate%20Medical%20Service&f=false - RegardsMaureene (talk)

Apothecary

Hi Sarah, I must say I don’t agree with the quick definition of Apothecary which has been added.

“Initially, under the East India Company, this was a junior medical orderly.”

I don’t think it could be said that an Apothecary was ever a junior medical orderly, at least not in Australian terms, where an orderly does nothing to do with matters of treatment at all. Maybe when they first started their training as boys this terminology might apply, but not trained Apothecaries. In 1812 boys were to be trained as “Compounders and Dressers, and ultimately as Apothecaries and Sub Assistant Surgeons”

If you read down the Apothecary page it says “Medical College training for Hospital Apprentices was introduced in 1847 in Bengal following the system that had previously been successfully introduced in Madras. "General Order 200" dated 15 June 1847 is about Apprenticeships in the Bengal Subordinate Medical Department. It sets out that candidates would sit an examination to become an apprentice. Those successful would serve for two years as an apprentice in the Hospital of a European Regiment or General Hospital. They then may be selected by the Medical Board for a studentship in the Medical College. They would then attend a two year course of study comprising Anatomy, Dissection, Materia Medica, Pharmaceutical Chemistry, the practice of Medicine and Surgery and more especially clinical instruction in connection with the last two branches. At the end of the two years they were to undergo an examination. If successful they were to be drafted to European Regiments or to the General Hospital, there to wait their turn for promotion as Assistant Apothecaries or Assistant Stewards. Promotion to Apothecary was also to be by examination.

Even comparing an Apothecary to a senior nurse is not correct, at least for the Australian situation, because no nurses would have studied, or would perform surgery. I think a lower ranked doctor would be more accurate terminology, or possibly a senior nurse who performed surgery.

By the time the Indian Army was established in 1895, the term Assistant Surgeon was the term then used, and I believe by training they were regarded as fully qualified medical men.
Regards Maureene (talk)
Sarah, now changed, per your comment on my User page Maureene (talk) 1 February 2014